PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Phoenicia]

I really doubt that, now that WAR got a really strong offensive stance and that Determination doesn't affect auto-attacks.

Determination STILL affects Auto-attacks. It affects them less.

PLD in Sword Oath does roughly 70 DPS less than WAR in Deliverance provided it gets TP and Slashing debuff. PLD OT doing 70 less DPS than WAR but WAR MT doing 150~300 DPS more than PLD MT is higher DPS than DRK MT / WAR OT.

PLD "shines" as the single safest tank. I say this for the hundredth time! (well not really, but yeah). Safety is what makes PLD better than WAR. Both tanks mitigate the same damage on busters, PLD does it far more safely.

This game only has three metrics for tanks: DPS, Mitigation, Utility. PLD is already at the top in two of them.

[Reynhart]

PLD "shines" as the single safest tank. I say this for the hundredth time! (well not really, but yeah)

And for the hundreth times (well not really, but yeah) the difference is so thin that it doesn't matter in the vast majority of real content.

This game only has three metrics for tanks: DPS, Mitigation, Utility. PLD is already at the top in two of them.

What, Utility ? You mean like they have a GCD Stun were no fight requires stunning that often ? Or a Silence that became useless long time ago ? Or Divine Veil, that pales in comparison to Storm's Path when it comes to mitigate raid damage (even if you add Rage Of Halone on top of that, since it only works on physical damage) ? Or that, without Storm's Eye, you bring nothing to increase the already good DPS of NINs and the so important DPS of all tanks ?

I think you mispelled WAR when saying one tank is a the top of two metrics.

AND, disregarding the fact that PLD is at the top of mitigation ONLY for physical fights, which tend to be rare since HW. I'd like you to show me how wonderful are Bulwark and Sheltron, or even the passive mitigation of Block, for tanking the last boss of the Vault, the last boss or Facility or even the Manipulator...

[Phoenicia]

And for the hundreth times (well not really, but yeah) the difference is so thin that it doesn't matter in the vast majority of real content.

What, Utility ? You mean like they have a GCD Stun were no fight requires stunning that often ? Or a Silence that became useless long time ago ? Or Divine Veil, that pales in comparison to Storm's Path when it comes to mitigate raid damage (even if you add Rage Of Halone on top of that, since it only works on physical damage) ? Or that, without Storm's Eye, you bring nothing to increase the already good DPS of NINs and the so important DPS of all tanks ?

I think you mispelled WAR when saying one tank is a the top of two metrics.

AND, disregarding the fact that PLD is at the top of mitigation ONLY for physical fights, which tend to be rare since HW. I'd like you to show me how wonderful are Bulwark and Sheltron, or even the passive mitigation of Block, for tanking the last boss of the Vault, the last boss or Facility or even the Manipulator...

Dude, did you read my whole post?

PLD's mitigation in magical fights is REALLY GOOD. DRK is just "better". It's not like PLD will die in a magical fight whereas a DRK wouldn't. DRK has 1 CD for magical damage that a PLD doesn't have. If DRK can manage a CD rotation for a fight, PLD will manage a similar CD rotation fo that fight just as easily.

Safety is HUGE. There is a reason you don't see WAR MTs running rampant but you still see PLD MTs. If you refuse to see that then you just selectively choose to ignore facts. In any combination containing PLD, PLD is usually the MT.

Again, Storm's Eye is not unique to WAR. NIN has it too. NIN loses about 50~70 DPS if it applies its own DE. Considering NIN does ~1300 DPS, that's not even 5%.

Also again, Storm's Path is not the holy grail of all utility as you make it. 90% of the time a good WAR wouldn't apply it. If it is strictly up 100% of the fight then: 1- WAR is not using BB at all, doing 50~70 (5~7%) less DPS than it should (similar to DPS lost by NIN). Also no triple Fell Cleaves are happening since it's impossible to keep SP and SE without letting one drop if you triple FC. 2- WAR keeps BB but can't use SE causing a 10% DPS loss on EVERY CLASS that uses slashing debuff. If a party is without NIN: WAR loses ~100 DPS, DRK loses ~100 DPS and PLD loses ~90 DPS.

Most of the "massive" AoE happens after jumps, Divine Veil can still work better than WAR's already-fallen-off, if it was even applied in the first place, Storm Path. Also on any single attack, unless the attack literally 1-shots you, a 10% layer of HP is higher mitigation than pure 10% reduced damage.

PLD has Clemency, a GREAT utility that PLD can get the full potential of as an OT.

PLD has Stoneskin, a GREAT utility that PLD can get the full potential of as a MT or OT.

PLD has Cover, gimmicky but has great uses and saved many raids in the past. Will probably still see great uses in the future.

PLD can cast Protect on any revived member instead of healers.

PLD can pop Convalescence and healers can AoE heal the raid and ignore single healing the PLD and it'd still be enough.

Stop over-dramatizing WAR's "utility".. It's overrated.

For the entirety of 2.x, PLD was the preferred tank even though WAR mitigated better, do you know why? Well, nothing has changed. PLD is still safer than WAR, PLD still has the better HG, PLD still is easier to heal, PLD still has more utility.

People wouldn't have even cared about PLD DPS if the new tank option "DRK" didn't make an appearance. But guess what? DRK is POOP in mitigation and safety compared to PLD. And no, Dark Mind doesn't justify DRK's mitigation. Living Dead is one of the worst CDs to ever make an appearance in FFXIV.

[Reynhart]

For the entirety of 2.x, PLD was the preferred tank even though WAR mitigated better, do you know why?

Because people, like you, kept saying that PLD is absolutely better, probably because they never overcame how bad WAR was in 2.0.
It's exactly the same as people claiming time and time again that DRG is bad, a stigma that even comes from a totally different game.

It's just Urban Legends, and they tend to die hard.

I have played with several WAR MT in almost every content of 2.x, and it was a breeze each time.
In fact, I was happy to step out of MT role, because WAR MT/PLD OT brings more DPS than PLD MT/WAR OT.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

I swear you do not read my entire posts.

As a WAR main for the entirety of 2.x, I main tanked ALL my progression raids except T8 and 9. And I have a few Phoenix server firsts and seconds I can claim including T12 and 13. So you claiming that "people like me" kept saying PLD is absolutely better is utter BS. On the contrary, I advocate WAR main tanking because I know how strong it is. Also if you actually read my posts, I kept saying that if PLD's eHP advantage isn't cutting it for you, let the PLD OT and have the WAR MT. You end up with more DPS without changing your raid setup. AND you gain more utility. Stop putting words ignorantly into my mouth.

But you playing with "several" WAR MT in farm content is not the same as "blindly progressed raids" with a WAR MT. PLD has been, and always will be, the safer option. Every time I talk mitigation, I talked "Safety", you just choose to ignore that and claim I said PLD is "better". It is like how you stupidly say "it makes a run faster, not better".

DRG's stigma of being bad was because DRGs had long animation locks on their jumps and kept dying to AoEs in THIS GAME. Yes them sucking in FFXI didn't help but it was true that they were no better in this game until 2.45. Do not ignore that DRG was the only class that brought absolutely no raid utility. And it was lowest DPS in 2.0 (BRD did more DPS then) and remained lower than MNK and NIN until 2.45. Then NIN was slightly nerfed and DRG was buffed to have the same DPS finally in 2.45. DRG is still "the cool looking" class (sharing this spot with DRK now) that attracts the bads.

"Legends" are often based on some form of truth.

EDIT: Since I am getting tired of this thread's stupidity and in an effort to let this thread die, this will be my last post in it. Take my posts with a grain of salt. In the end none of our opinions matter as SE will collect actual data and based on that buff/nerf classes. But as things are, PLD will not be getting a buff without getting hit in its safety. Not to mention videos and parses were posted to show how PLD is not far behind WAR in DPS.

[Reynhart]

So you claiming that "people like me" kept saying PLD is absolutely better is utter BS.

So the "On the three metric that matters, PLD come out on top for two" is not you saying that PLD is better ?
Maybe you should reread your posts, then...

Also if you actually read my posts, I kept saying that if PLD's eHP advantage isn't cutting it for you, let the PLD OT and have the WAR MT. You end up with more DPS without changing your raid setup. AND you gain more utility.

Yes, and each time, I'm saying that you can have even more DPS by simply ditching the PLD. And, at best, you end up with the exact same utility as the other way round...

PLD has been, and always will be, the safer option. Every time I talk mitigation, I talked "Safety", you just choose to ignore that and claim I said PLD is "better".

You brought up the three metrics. On one of them PLD is slighty above (For physical fights only) and on the other two, it's generally weaker (No, Storm's path is not something you can brush out saying it's overrated, since it's a permanent 10% damage reduction for everyone...).

DRG's stigma of being bad was because DRGs had long animation locks on their jumps and kept dying to AoEs in THIS GAME.

So the job is bad because some players don't know how to dodge AoE ?
I wonder why this stigma didn't spread to every job, because they're all - well not PLD - more difficult to play properly than DRG, so bad players would suck really bad.

Do not ignore that DRG was the only class that brought absolutely no raid utility. And it was lowest DPS in 2.0 (BRD did more DPS then) and remained lower than MNK and NIN until 2.45

"lolDRG" is not about them being lesser DPS, it's about them constantly tanking the floor or being the first to die...this stigma was so widespread that even SE lampshaded it in their 16-bit Titan fight...

"Legends" are often based on some form of truth.

No, legends are often based on some form of ignorance, misunderstanding or misconception...

Not to mention videos and parses were posted to show how PLD is not far behind WAR in DPS.

Yep, videos were shown where a PLD (or DRK), with the help of a NIN for the slashing debuff and a BRD/MCH for the TP refresh, was not far behind a WAR...on its own...for a 5 minute parse.
Wonderful comparison !

[Casper]

No, Storm's path is not something you can brush out saying it's overrated, since it's a permanent 10% damage reduction for everyone...

Storm path is not permanent without some real tradeoffs from the War -- and even then it may not be up for big aoe, as was mentionned before. Who is misleading now ? Seriously you can't say that and expect to be taken seriously. As a matter of fact, if you are MT as War with no nin in the party, you are going to have very, very, very few paths. As an OT, you can keep it up most of the time (not all the time) at a non-negligible cost to your dps.

I'm sorry, you really are discrediting any value there may be in your arguments by refusing so much any objectivity in what you are saying.