PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Giantbane]

No. If base is 100% DPS then Darkside is 115% DPS. 20% of 115% is 23%. Grit is a 23% DPS loss, if you dropped Darkside too you would see a 35% DPS loss. Shield Oath is a rougher calculation. 20% reduced from base sure, but loss of +50 potency on autos ups that by about another 12~15%(estimate) for a total of about 35% DPS loss. You're very eager to ignore the multiplicative effects in this game. Stop that.

Exactly, you're basing that 23% off of some arbitrary collection of abilities like "use all your other stuff, but not darkside because ... ???" when there's no good reason you wouldn't use darkside in the vast majority of situations whether it's tanking or DPS or some combination of the two (tanking w/o grit). So it's a nonsensical stat that doesn't serve any purpose for comparison.

I mean, I might as well say:
Using all your oGCD attacks (C&S, dark passenger, plunge, low blow, reprisal) gives you 20% more DPS (no idea if this is correct). So you're really doing 1.15 * 1.2 = 138% by using your oGCD attacks and darkside. Now if you turn on Grit, that lowers your DPS to 1.38 * 0.8 = 110.4%, 1.38 - 1.104 = .276. So Grit REALLY reduces your damage by 27.6% of the damage you do by just standing around doing GCD attacks. But that doesn't tell you anything useful. It's a purely useless stat.

[Noira]

So you guys want the best damage mitigation AND equal dps to to the other tanks :x ?

Never thought I'd see the day PLds complain about deeps ._..

You got bulwark, sheltron, rampart, sentienal, clemeny and divine veil, hell you even got more non eminty combo attacks, whereas War just got more attacks and a double edge sword auto parry.

Drks have to use mp to buff their mitigation on top of having rng to even use reprisal.

PLD just has to press button, the only time you need mp is for flash and clemency now.

You guys want your cake and on top of eating it too like what ? <.<

[NFaelivrin]

You got bulwark, sheltron, rampart, sentienal, clemeny and divine veil, hell you even got more non eminty combo attacks, whereas War just got more attacks and a double edge sword auto parry.

Sheltron and Bulwark are largely useless in the current raid, Clemency is incredibly situational. Paladin's defensive advantages are currently largely nullified by current raid design, leaving behind a tank that survives the same, not better than the others, but does less damage.

[SirTaint]

@noiro If you have zero idea what you are talking about please step away and let the adults discuss.

@disc

Anything fixed in a math formula won't effect the ilvl change. Rage will still be x5 and still be the same potency. Our numbers will be bigger but still multiplied by the same factors. SwO will still be gimped for hate.

Again your math is right you understanding of your own math is not.

Ilvl damage x pot x emn where pot and emn are fixed will scale equally across jobs.

[Disc]

Exactly, you're basing that 23% off of some arbitrary collection of abilities like "use all your other stuff, but not darkside because ... ???" when there's no good reason you wouldn't use darkside in the vast majority of situations whether it's tanking or DPS or some combination of the two (tanking w/o grit). So it's a nonsensical stat that doesn't serve any purpose for comparison

Assuming Darkside is on full time DRK does 25% more damage out of Grit than they do with Grit on, and 20% less with Grit on than they do with Grit off.

100 Base * Darkside(1.15) = 115
100 Base * Darkside(1.15) * Grit = 92

(92/115)*100 = 80 Translates to 20% DPS loss from 115% of base
(115/92)*100 = 125 Translates to 25% DPS gain from 92% of base.

100 = 100% of Base
115 = 115% of Base
92 = 92% of base
Using your Base DPS as Base for reference, there is a 23% difference between the two stances and what you would do

All of this means the same thing.

The estimate for Sword Oath is because swapping to Shield Oath is not just a percentage reduction. The flat 50 potency addition to auto-attacks, going off memory was around a 60% increase in auto-attack damage the last time this was really looked into, which accounted for around 30% of overall DPS. Doing a quick test while writing this seems to have dropped dramatically to around 20% of overall DPS, with roughly the same 60% increase to auto-attack DPS from Sword Oath.(257minimum+169minimum) Against dummies my Shield Oath DPS is roughly 70% of my Sword oath DPS, and my Sword Oath DPS is roughly 140% of my Shield Oath DPS. I don't feel like doing all of the math, you get the point.

Sheltron and Bulwark are largely useless in the current raid, Clemency is incredibly situational. Paladin's defensive advantages are currently largely nullified by current raid design, leaving behind a tank that survives the same, not better than the others, but does less damage.

Paladin has clear advantages in AS2 & specific phases in AS3. AS1 will see rise in PLD ability as they gear up and enmity in Sword Oath becomes less of an issue. AS4 remains to be seen, but they had some clear advantages in Normal Mode with proper use of Mitigation/Clemency during Discoid & Orbs.

Anything fixed in a math formula won't effect the ilvl change. Rage will still be x5 and still be the same potency. Our numbers will be bigger but still multiplied by the same factors. SwO will still be gimped for hate.

Again your math is right you understanding of your own math is not.

Ilvl damage x pot x emn where pot and emn are fixed will scale equally across jobs.

In terms of enmity, tanks have a steeper curve than DPS. Put it on a line graph assuming 10% increases in DPS for each, just Sword Oath + Savage Blade even.

Say 50% increase in damage for a 1000 damage melee attack & a 560 damage Savage Blade.

Melee Base Enmity = 1000 Damage * 1 Modifier = 1000 Enmity
Melee New Enmity = 1500 Damage * 1 Modifier = 1500 Enmity

Tank Base Enmity = 560 Damage * 3 Modifier =1680 Enmity
Tank New Enmity = 840 Damage * 3 Modifier = 2520 Enmity

The melee sees an increase of 500 points in enmity for their 500 damage(1.5x damage increase)
The tank sees an increase of 840 points of enmity for their 280 damage(1.5x damage increase)

Converting it to overall DPS is a bit more complicated, but opening with a Shield Oath Halone Combo on a 100 damage/attack gain converts to thousands of damage worth of enmity. All tanks share some form of this enmity bonus over DPS, which is a major factor in dropping stance more often as we gear up. Also keep in mind that Sword Oath not having -20% damage results in the equivalent of something like a 1.25x enmity modifier, which will be significant paired with an ever increasing Savage Blade.(leading to Royal Authority of course)

[Lone-wolfe-02]

I think what's happening is the fact that plds are no longer the go to mt anymore and they can't deal with that because they wanna be special.

[OPneedNerfs]

I think what's happening is the fact that plds are no longer the go to mt anymore and they can't deal with that because they wanna be special.

More like WARs are afraid that their solid OT spot in raids will get compromised.

[Galgarion]

More like WARs are afraid that their solid OT spot in raids will get compromised.

Doesn't seem like a possibility since most tanks are either Paladins or Dark Knights. If our Axes don't get you, our novelty will!

[Cidolfas86]

Doesn't seem like a possibility since most tanks are either Paladins or Dark Knights. If our Axes don't get you, our novelty will!

Maybe on your data center sure, but on Aether the DRK craze has tapered off a bit. I see more PLDs still than anything else though sadly. It took longer than I expected.

[Gameplayzero]

Pretty sure tanks do consistent amount of damage relative to each other when OTing. People underestimate paladins damage potential, but its usually been on par with warriors.

Look it up. People think that Warriors out deeps the other tank classes are wrong. Yoshi P even said himself Darks do the same amount of damage. Its just that Warriors do the most burst damage thanks to feel cleave.


Now if you meant MTing, then thats a different story. Haven't done enough research to say much there.