Things Getting Too Obnoxious

[Fendred]

You really don't need that much "research" to play your job well. If you can't play your job at at least 80% of the crunch-heavy munchkin players after playing with your toolbox after a couple weeks, I don't think it's the game that's the problem.

Except playing at 80% capacity isn't going to down any bosses. Now if they dropped the complexity of the classes down to 80% of their current state, that would actually make a difference.

[Saggo]

Honestly if they just made macros queue properly, that would fix a lot of issues. Not that the system couldn't/shouldn't use an overhaul in general, just that that one queueing change would make a world of difference.

[Phoebus]

Examples of button bloat:

3. All of the Deliverance abilities for WAR. Seriously, why this isn't a toggle between IB/FC, SC/Deci, is beyond me.

You can actually do this with a macro, but i agree there is way to much button bloat without tools to deal with it.

[pandabearcat]

You can actually do this with a macro, but i agree there is way to much button bloat without tools to deal with it.

A macro that cannot be queued, sadly.

Or a macro that can swap hotbars, but that comes with its own slew of possible problems.

[Odowla]

Except playing at 80% capacity isn't going to down any bosses. Now if they dropped the complexity of the classes down to 80% of their current state, that would actually make a difference.

80% of their current state wouldnt even be anything.

Every class would be put up dots, then 111111111111 111111111111 11111111111 except the melees which would be the same but with 123 123 123 123 123. That doesnt sound fun at all.

[Snowaeth]

I don't see the issue of having certain classes that don't need to do as many obnoxious things to come close to their skill cap.
As long as the balance is there and the classes that have a higher skill cap can actually do higher damage compared to the ones that are more straightforward, we'd actually have more class variety and more happy people.
There would be people that could still play their super high skill cap classes but those that rather play a class with a lower skill cap would also have something to choose from, rather than having to play a class at 80% or whatever %.

[Ryaz]

80% of their current state wouldnt even be anything.

Every class would be put up dots, then 111111111111 111111111111 11111111111 except the melees which would be the same but with 123 123 123 123 123. That doesnt sound fun at all.

That sounds a lot like The Secret World. Loved the game and played it for years (still do at times due to lifetime sub), but the gameplay was literally hitting 1111123. There's a single counter you really have to worry about, but that's about it. I actually made it my goal to find something different and even that was pretty easy to keep up with.

I thought GW2 handled it pretty well. Limited buttons allowed meant it kept bloat down (though certain specs would always be superior, many were stil competitive), but the system allowed for a bit of complexity, especially with weapon swapping or engineer kits.

Right now the bloat isn't horrible (as a PC player anyway), but I can see where console players are having problems and SE is going to have to be very careful going forward to keep it from getting worse.

Even simple things make me scratch my head. Did we really need 5 new active abilities in HW? Did MCH really need two separate damage reduction abilities for magic and physical? It's things like that which lead to bloat. They could have had three new abilties and have two traits which improved two of those.

[justinjarjar]

GW did it better than GW2. Anyways skill bloat is at the verge of being a problem for the PS3/4 crowd (even pc it is at the edge of being too much ie drg is about 3-4 hotbars). Beyond the bloat, which should get looked at before or during next expansion, the jobs got a whole lot more fun to play at level 60 over 50. Might be just me, but I like the added systems most jobs got. I guess some people like mind numbing easy jobs, idk, matters the person.

[Ayuhra]

GW did it better than GW2. Anyways skill bloat is at the verge of being a problem for the PS3/4 crowd (even pc it is at the edge of being too much ie drg is about 3-4 hotbars). Beyond the bloat, which should get looked at before or during next expansion, the jobs got a whole lot more fun to play at level 60 over 50. Might be just me, but I like the added systems most jobs got. I guess some people like mind numbing easy jobs, idk, matters the person.

It's not that I prefer "mind numbing easy jobs" I just prefer rotations be fluid and simplistic and the ENCOUNTERS to be harder. I mentioned on Gen Discussion somewhere that this one thing WoW does very well and is the only thing it still does decently. When the actual combat plays easily you can make bosses do all sorts of insane things and not in a set pattern either. I would much rather watch bosses than timers.

[hallena]

It's not that I prefer "mind numbing easy jobs" I just prefer rotations be fluid and simplistic and the ENCOUNTERS to be harder. I mentioned on Gen Discussion somewhere that this one thing WoW does very well and is the only thing it still does decently. When the actual combat plays easily you can make bosses do all sorts of insane things and not in a set pattern either. I would much rather watch bosses than timers.

You would be right if wow's boss actually did anything crazy. wow raiding consist of one main mechanic which can be handled by one/two person, The rest being dont stand in the evil circles