So Thursday's maintenance is supposed to bring crafting/gardening adjustments...

[Psycofang]

Wrong. Don't lie so straight like that. For Crafting you need to invest a Grand Sum first for perfect Melds on the Equip for the Equip itself and shit. Millions of Gil, because the System is not new and we are all friends. A new Player lvling Crafting means more Fighting over Selling.
The System is broken and you know it.

That the Crafts aren't viable for Endgame is my lil sweetpot, i hope it stays this way.

crafters are not here to do jack shit for you, they do not have to do ANYTHING FOR YOU.

your agrument is based off the fact that we have to when we dont have to do anything for you at all.

you cry and complain and whine like thatll change anything, crafting takes ALOT of time and effort and good luck to get where we are and this is coming from a "PVE" player who farms A4.

it takes money to make money and we spend alot to profit of players just like you, players not patient enough to level any crafts (and no as of HW you dont need to meld jack and i have my masterbooks to prove this), too lazy and impatient to level a gatherer.

you battle only players feed the marketboard through your gritted teeth as you complain on forums like thatll do anything, you sound bitter that you arent making money thats all im reading from this.

call it broken all yo want, just like i tell pve players who want to yell at a tank/healer/dps, until you DO level your stuff you dont reserve the right to say anything about the job.

word of advise; get off your lazy ass or stop whining because im not dropping my prices for shit.

[Issac]

crafters are not here to do jack shit for you, they do not have to do ANYTHING FOR YOU.

your agrument is based off the fact that we have to when we dont have to do anything for you at all.

you cry and complain and whine like thatll change anything, crafting takes ALOT of time and effort and good luck to get where we are and this is coming from a "PVE" player who farms A4.

it takes money to make money and we spend alot to profit of players just like you, players not patient enough to level any crafts (and no as of HW you dont need to meld jack and i have my masterbooks to prove this), too lazy and impatient to level a gatherer.

you battle only players feed the marketboard through your gritted teeth as you complain on forums like thatll do anything, you sound bitter that you arent making money thats all im reading from this.

call it broken all yo want, just like i tell pve players who want to yell at a tank/healer/dps, until you DO level your stuff you dont reserve the right to say anything about the job.

word of advise; get off your lazy ass or stop whining because im not dropping my prices for shit.

Thank you.

[Dejectedbunny]

Well easy because PvE Players have no means to get these ridiculous amounts of Gil Crafters want from us. If i want to buy this crafted Shit i would be forced to do RMT. And Boy thats the last thing i want to do.

As opposed to soul binding gear for materia, completing challenge log entries, farming materials to sell on the MB, retainer ventures, gathering, desynthing, playing the MB, etc?

So it would be really good to flood the Market with easy Stuff. To Crush the Monopol or Oligarchy thats Active and make a Player friendly Economy.

So essentially, your complaint is that you have to actually work for your gil?

But this would hurt teh Crafters! Guess what...you Job is to support the Fighting Classes not bled em dry. Your Job is to provide crafted Stuff for those of us who have weeks long bad Drop Luck.

This has already been stated by previous posters, but allow me to reiterate... We're not required to support anyone. A large majority of us give away more gear and melds than we make to sell, but again that's something that each crafter chooses to do, not because we're obligated to.

Make Materials easy affordable and farmable and ruin this skyrocketed MB. Look at Warcraft. Ppl still Buy Crafted Stuff all Day and the Price is so low. Well Warcraft has a Garrison where you can make Gold. What do PvE Players have here to make Gil? Nothing.

Materials are easily farmable, it's just requires to you put forth some effort. As a side note, you do realize that the "skyrocketed" cost of materials on the MB only affects the crafters (aka the same group of people you are complaining about), right? Also bringing up WoW's crafting / AH system does nothing to strengthen your argument here. Crafting in that game consists solely of selecting an amount and hitting a single button. There are no HQ variations of the finished product and no where near the degree of complexity that FFXIV has for its crafting system. Not to mention, that game throws gear at you constantly (much like this one does) effectively eliminating the need for most crafted gear.

I rather jump the Grind Mill of Tomes again before i start with the radioactive Waste that is called "Crafting".

Again, you want the benefits of crafting, but don't want to put in the work yourself. If you don't agree with the prices, then make it yourself.

For Crafting you need to invest a Grand Sum first for perfect Melds on the Equip for the Equip itself and shit. Millions of Gil, because the System is not new and we are all friends. A new Player lvling Crafting means more Fighting over Selling. So lets make shit SO costly he will say "Fuck this shit" and leaves it alone so that you can get in all the profit. And im not talking about you personally im talking about crafters in general.

The System is broken and you know it. You just don't want to admit it because this would be the same as admitting you wasted your time on something thats broken for your own profit and that it needs to be corrected.

Funny, I didn't have to spend millions of gil to get all my crafts to 4 star level. I just put in the effort. Some choose to spend their gil to fast track equipping and melding their gear. Others choose to gather the materials and materia themselves. In the end, both are perfectly viable options. You keep trying to paint crafting as this exclusive club where you need to have X amount of gil to buy your way into it. Sorry to tell you, but that couldn't be further from the truth. It just requires work.

That the Crafts aren't viable for Endgame is my lil sweetpot, i hope it stays this way.

Again, I would question what it is you're complaining about. Crafted gear at end game level is mostly for glamour (e.g. not important for functionality). This isn't FFXI where 90% of the gear in the game was crafted. It's possible to level a job from 1-60 using nothing but quest rewards and dungeon gear. So again, what are you complaining about?

I studied the Marketboard and then decided that it is broken. Same with Crafting Stuff. Since then i just don't use it.
A easy Way to make it more affordable is just to break the System that you need to invest Millions of Gil for the Equip the Crafter uses. A Way would be the new Tomes of Esoterics sell Crafting Gear.

You mean like the NPC in Mor Dhona that sells non-meldable crafting gear in exchange for turning in crafted token items? Oh wait, no you want to be able to run content on a battle job and then apply rewards from said content toward crafting; rather than using those tomes to purchase gear that is better out-of-the-box than crafted gear.

The Crafting in MMO's was never intended for making Profit. It was to provide Support for the PvE or PvP. I dont say to totally make it worthless but to nerf it down to a level where a normal player can buy stuff after saving his dungeon run gil for 2-3 weeks. Or give PvE Players a Way of getting Gil while restricting the Crafters just to raise the Price. I think you like the first way...right?

But here there was some Players who thought "cool we can rip em off because it's not so easy doing crafting here in xiv let's build up a monopol!" And then...you have the Situation we have now.

Not sure what a "monopol" is, but you're definitely confused about the concept of a free market. Crafters charge what consumers are willing to pay for their wares. Furthermore, no one forces you to purchase crafted items and certainly no one prevents you from seeking a different price or making those items yourself. As for crafting being difficult in this game, yeah I guess it is when compared to the click a single button, get item crafting of some other games (WoW, GW2, etc.).

If a crafter's sole purpose is to support the PVE and PVP players, then does that obligate the PVE players to support the crafters? In other words, do you spend your time following a gatherer around clearing out aggroing mobs or farming materials to give to away?

I wanted the Arachne Set just for the Looks. The Set is outdated since...long Time. But still Crafters want nearly a Million Gil for one Piece. You can buy EVERYTHING! For roughly 300-400K Gil. So you just pay a Crafter for hitting 2-3 Macros double the Mats. Thats called a ripoff in Real World my Friend. And this was just an example on me. There are countless Players like that.

So you wanted gear solely for glamour purposes, didn't agree with the prices being offered, and immediately declared all crafters to be greedy, capitalistic, money-whores whose only concern is making a 600% profit off the poor downtrodden masses? Did you bother to get the materials and ask a crafter to make those items using the materials you provided? Also you previously stated that "crafting wasn't easy" which is why we're able to "rip players off", but then you go on to say that making the items you wanted only consists of hitting 2-3 macros.

And it's really much more worse with Stuff thats "up to date".

e.g. Things that are currently relevant, still not considered mandatory by any means, and requires current materials which take slightly more effort to procure.

Leveling a Crafting Class takes Weeks. Why? Well obiviously many don't want to help you. Your a new Competitor on the Marketplace. Nobody wants to share Spoils and so on. To take it simple everyone is controlled by his Greed aka "IT'S MY TREASUUUUUUURE GOLLUM GOLLUM!"

You know, I've heard there are games out there where a single character has the ability to level all crafts and gathering professions, essentially making them completely self-sufficient. I sure wish this game was like that... oh wait...

[Hypie]

As opposed to soul binding gear for materia, completing challenge log entries, farming materials to sell on the MB, retainer ventures, gathering, desynthing, playing the MB, etc?

And you think doing this 1-2 times will be enough to pay the Crafting Stuff? Man you are so naive it hurts....i would be "forced" (not really but i hope you get what i mean) to do this for 1-2 MONTH'S to pay for a single damn Gear on the MB.

This has already been stated by previous posters, but allow me to reiterate... We're not required to support anyone.

Lemme correct you. YOU DON'T WANT TO...support. This is the Reality. You simply don't want that. You like "Power Position" you have. Thats completely normal for a Human. If i am King and someone wants to etablish Democracy i too would work towards to silence him.

Materials are easily farmable

That's a plain Lie and we both know this. But whatever.

So you wanted gear solely for glamour purposes, didn't agree with the prices being offered, and immediately declared all crafters to be greedy, capitalistic, money-whores whose only concern is making a 600% profit off the poor downtrodden masses? Did you bother to get the materials and ask a crafter to make those items using the materials you provided? Also you previously stated that "crafting wasn't easy" which is why we're able to "rip players off", but then you go on to say that making the items you wanted only consists of hitting 2-3 macros.

Sorry maybe i wasn't clear enough on the first Post. I had the Materials and over 30 Crafters still wanted to be paid 500-600K Gild just because they had the Receipt and could Craft that Stuff....thats pretty much being a asshole if you ask me. And sorry i misspelled the Word it's called "Monopoly".

Yes Crafting is "not easy" and "easy" If i would RMT 20 Mills and go on Crafting it would be jackass easy. I copy the Macros from a Guide and be done with it. The Road to the Max Level is the Stuff thats not easy and it's costly. Or like you said i grind for Weeks doing Ixal Stuff. But until im there where i want to be other Players have already build up such a big Base that you have no Chance of getting a stable "income"

The thing that's scaring *me* isn't the materials requirements, but rather the gear.

Seriously need to overmeld *everything*? FC mate of mine just dumped *millions* into his set just in melds.

I ain't got that shit...

AND THIS. Is the normal Situation for normal PvE Players that are interested in Crafting. And you need the Melds if you want a 100% Chance to Craft the Gear in HQ.

This is the Point thats the most broken Point in XIV Crafting. This B*llsh*t "Chance"-System. If i learned how to build a Chair and have Master degree in building chairs then i dont have the friggin "chance" to build a good chair, i build a good chair every.single.*beeeep*ing.time.

I dont need to buy equipment for millions for building a *Beeeep* chair. This is simplfied yes but still valid.


Next answers t after a break im getting a bit....angry and dont want to write stuff while seeing red.

[Chrolo]

Sorry maybe i wasn't clear enough on the first Post. I had the Materials and over 30 Crafters still wanted to be paid 500-600K Gild just because they had the Receipt and could Craft that Stuff....thats pretty much being a asshole if you ask me. And sorry i misspelled the Word it's called "Monopoly".

Thats just a plain lie, or youre getting to the completely wrong crafters.

There is always at least 1 Crafter on PF whos offering his services on Moogle and the highest amount of money i saw them charging was 50k for NQ and 100k for HQ. I saw enough ppl who just charged like 20-30k for crafting.

[Psycofang]

Thats just a plain lie, or youre getting to the completely wrong crafters.

There is always at least 1 Crafter on PF whos offering his services on Moogle and the highest amount of money i saw them charging was 50k for NQ and 100k for HQ. I saw enough ppl who just charged like 20-30k for crafting.

sorry not wiht all this posting, this is just damage control at this point.

rarely will a crafter ask for even 2-300k for an item if a player brings them ALL the mats, if you do that its 10k ill charge you or 2k if im in a good mood or you are nice about it.

ive been playing this game since launch and and have never seen prices that ridiculous even when i wasn't a crafter myself.

[Hypie]

Thats just a plain lie, or youre getting to the completely wrong crafters.

There is always at least 1 Crafter on PF whos offering his services on Moogle and the highest amount of money i saw them charging was 50k for NQ and 100k for HQ. I saw enough ppl who just charged like 20-30k for crafting.

Well yes with Heavensward out you are right. Before that...nope. Didn't find a single one. Btw right after HW hit i got a Crafter doing it for free! After asking why he said "Well i get exp for that."I can't shake of this Feeling off....ya know "it helps me so its okay...it helps me not so lets charge him on a sum i like".

Whatever you say the entire Crafting System with Supply and everything is obiviously Broken and could reaaaally use some Love.

What you are really saying here is that you detest people that want to be compensated for the countless hours of work they put in to be able to make said item in the first place. Also I personally don't spike prices, I do price things at a reasonable going rate however. I did raise the price of some glamour prisms one time because people were for some reason buying them faster than I could even make them. Even then it wasn't anything outrageous.

I fail to see why people never take into account the time and effort that crafters/gatherers spend to be able to craft items for people. It's not all about material cost (which we don't always control, despite popular belief)

No only the Players who OVERcharge. And because it's a economy based on the wellfare of crafters you can't do nothing against it.
You think Players will start charging low Prices because no Reason? Dream on. You have to make serious Changes so that they lower the Price. So yeah basically you have to force em or they would hurt themself. Thats Capitalism.

@DejectedBunny:

So you want XIV to be a Second Job? Uhm don't take it personally but last Time i checked XIV was a Game meant to be enjoyed and not a "second Workplace".

Crafting is a big Cornerstone of every Game and no matter how much you argue its not on par with other MMO's. Its outdated overcomplicated Stuff based on RNG and heavily punishs the ones who don't invest a huge amount of Gil. It's not...suitable for the mass. Yeah...not suitable for the mass at all.

[Dejectedbunny]

And you think doing this 1-2 times will be enough to pay the Crafting Stuff? Man you are so naive it hurts....i would be "forced" (not really but i hope you get what i mean) to do this for 1-2 MONTH'S to pay for a single damn Gear on the MB.

So you're upset because you have to work for something? No where did I ever say that any of this would be fast or easy. All of your arguments and counterarguments echo of laziness, pure and simple. Also, please list one piece of gear that is mandatory and requires to be purchased from the MB.

Lemme correct you. YOU DON'T WANT TO...support. This is the Reality. You simply don't want that. You like "Power Position" you have. Thats completely normal for a Human. If i am King and someone wants to etablish Democracy i too would work towards to silence him.

Let me correct you. There is a huge difference between supporting someone and giving things away for free. You seem to expect the latter. I have my own reasons for why I've invested so much time into crafting, it's not about any BS preconceived notions you have about holding power. Also, the example you stated is flawed in so many ways, but the most obvious being that in a Monarchy, Democracy, or Dictatorship there is one ruling power. That power is not shared amongst many parties. In order for a crafter to be in the position you so badly want to paint us as being in, each server would have to be able to accommodate only for a few at most. Not like the system that is currently in place, where anyone can be a high-level crafter at any time regardless of how many others there currently are.

That's a plain Lie and we both know this. But whatever.

Once again, there is very little difficulty in farming, it just requires time and effort (Seems to be a recurring theme, doesn't it?). Barring that, you can always level up a retainer and have them do it for you. That only requires clicking on a button, so that may be more your style.

Sorry maybe i wasn't clear enough on the first Post. I had the Materials and over 30 Crafters still wanted to be paid 500-600K Gild just because they had the Receipt and could Craft that Stuff....thats pretty much being a asshole if you ask me.

If you treat the crafters on your server in the same way that you do on here, I can imagine why they would want such a fee. That aside, you're making a generalization about an entire group based upon a few interactions. Word it however you like, but in the end you're still saying that crafters are bad because they didn't want to make you a piece of glamour gear for the price you felt you should pay. Also, you still haven't answered as to what is preventing you from leveling the craft up and making it yourself.

And sorry i misspelled the Word it's called "Monopoly".

Oh a monopoly. You mean one of these:

"MONOPOLY
1: exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action

2: exclusive possession or control

3: a commodity controlled by one party"
Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

Notice the prevalent use of the word "exclusive" in those definitions? Nothing in FFXIV's crafting system is exclusive to any one player or group of players.

Yes Crafting is "not easy" and "easy" If i would RMT 20 Mills and go on Crafting it would be jackass easy. I copy the Macros from a Guide and be done with it. The Road to the Max Level is the Stuff thats not easy and it's costly. Or like you said i grind for Weeks doing Ixal Stuff. But until im there where i want to be other Players have already build up such a big Base that you have no Chance of getting a stable "income"

Again with the laziness. If you don't want to work for it, then you don't deserve it. This is not Final Fantasy XIV: Welfare Reborn. As for making a stable income, there are so many ways to do that without being max lvl or fully melded. You just have to look for them. I'll give you a hint as to one of them: there is often more money to be made in the components than there is in the final product. Especially lower level stuff that a higher-end crafter may not want to bother with making themselves.

AND THIS. Is the normal Situation for normal PvE Players that are interested in Crafting. And you need the Melds if you want a 100% Chance to Craft the Gear in HQ.

This is the Point thats the most broken Point in XIV Crafting. This B*llsh*t "Chance"-System. If i learned how to build a Chair and have Master degree in building chairs then i dont have the friggin "chance" to build a good chair, i build a good chair every.single.*beeeep*ing.time.

I dont need to buy equipment for millions for building a *Beeeep* chair. This is simplfied yes but still valid.

Nothing that can be crafted in this game requires millions of gil worth of overmelds to make NQ versions of. Yeah, you might need food or FC buffs to hit the minimum requirements for 3 / 4 star stuff. If you want to have a 100% chance of making a HQ item, you have to work for it (There's that word again).

[ThanMazus]

word of advise; get off your lazy ass or stop whining because im not dropping my prices for shit.

I'm sure some undercutter will come along soon to destroy whatever pricing exists.

[Hypie]

@Psycofang: All i read is "MIMIMI this User wants to destroy "my" monopol i hate him!"

I don't level any Crafting profession because it's broken. You on the other Hand use this broken System so you can bled dry others. Your like these Jackasses in Wall Street. But this here is not Wall Street. If you want to play on the Wall Street go to the Wall Street and leave MMO which has a broken System which should be fixed alone. You just don't want to lose your "Throne".

By the Way i don't buy a single Thing from the Marketboard. I farmed my Gear. Feel free to sit on your useless Stuff you Crafted i wish more Players would just ignore the Marketboard.

@Wobi: This is not True i do understand the Hardship for Leveling it all to Max. But just wanting the Skin for Glamour and to be told to pay up 600k just because they can Craft it, even without wanting High Quality a Normal would be enough, i can't support such a Crafting System. And i detest Players who use such a System to enrich themself on the Costs of others.

Right now where we still at the Start of a Addon would be the perfect Chance to break down these Walls. To nicely kill off toxic Crafters that fight against Players interested in Crafting so they can have a stable Monopol (yes i had multiple Situations like that from myself and Friends). And to get a stable reasonable Market where a Ingot of the newest Mineral of the Expansion doesn't costs 500k+ (example) if you understand.

You need to understand that i dont want to make Crafting into something where you can only put you Stuff in for 5 Gil instead of 5 Millions. The Problem is that the Most Crafters just See White and Black. There is a Gray Zone where everyone can be happy. Well...except the greedy selfish Players.

And so long SE won't change anything i will not Stop encouraging Players to ignore the Market Board and only buy the Stuff they really really can't get another Way (Relic Crafted Base Weapon as a example).