So Thursday's maintenance is supposed to bring crafting/gardening adjustments...

[Gilthas]

.. besides implementing Red scrips for both.

I really hope that when they say adjustments they really mean it.

I loved crafting and gathering. Being able to craft and gather everything on a single character to craft my own equipment as I leveled up was fantastic. But then people started complaining on the forums about people being able to craft everything and with each update crafting and gathering has been getting worse and worse for players like me that want to be self-sufficient.

The development team has become obsessed with keeping prices on the Market Board high and so players that have a self-sufficient playstyle are constantly being punished with mechanics that are designed solely to limit supply and to drive players away from crafting and gathering. Heavensward has gone over the top to punish players:

- In 2.0 each leather requires 1 hide, in Heavensward they require 3 (pretty much all recipees that require monster drops have these inflated values and are limited to at max 3 drops per mob). This decision is particularly puzzling given how in the 2.0 days the development team went in the opposite direction when they increased the drop rate of common mats.
- In 2.0 weaver threads (mostly) required 2 base materials, in Heavensward they require 5.
- In 2.0 each lumber required 3 logs, in Heavensward they require 5.
- In 2.0 ingots (with the exception of electrum) required 3 base components, in Heavensward they require 6 for nuggets and ingots require 1 nugget and 4 components from hidden nodes.

For gathering too many common recipees require items from either hidden nodes or unspoiled nodes. Worse, several items that are needed for a lot of <55 equipment (Holy items) are walled behind a level 60 unspoiled node that requires a high level quest to even access.

And those Holy items that I mentioned? They require 2 Holy waters each to synth that themselves require 2 items from the above-mentions unspoiled node. So each time you need a Holy material you need 4 of those.

This is simply too much.

Then there's the absurd and poor planned requirements for quests and gear:

- The level 53 Goldsmith quest requires a fish that can only be obtained by level 55 Fishers, and Hardsilver that can only be mined by level 56 Miners.
- Level 54 accessories also require Hardsilver.

And what about GC deliveries? I used these before Heavensward to get seals to buy ventures for my retainers. I would turn in all items everyday. How balanced are these going to be at 60 with these inflated item requirements and Specializations? If I want to do turn-ins at 60 they'll now require a lot more of my limited daily time due to the grossly inflated material requirements.

Only my Weaver is 55 at the moment, so I don't have any experience with Specializations, but looking at my abilities menu I already see that we don't get any abilities from 55-60 for non-specialists. Its obvious that level 55-60 recipees are balanced with Specializations in mind. So with their obsession of keeping prices on the MB high, the development team has decided to lock players out of content. This is completely unacceptable.

I'm currently level 54 on my WAR and I haven't played in a week because when I turn on my PS4/PC to play the first thing that comes to mind is the ridiculous grind that I have to endure to craft stuff. Crafting and Gathering was fun in the 2.0 days, it got worse and worse in the 2.0 series of updates to culminate in the crap that it is in 3.0. I work all day and when I get home and log-in FFXIV I want to have fun, instead, I'm logging into a second job.

Sure, I could just buy stuff on the MB. But buying stuff on the MB is NO FUN AT ALL for me and I'm not some gilfarming monkey to be enslaved to the MB. Ultimately, what made me left FFXI mid-WotG was this unending gilfarming grind. Stop forcing this into FFXIV. Buying stuff from the MB is nowhere near as satisfying as farming and crafting my own materials and gear. Self-sufficient playstyles were fun and entirely viable when ARR was released. But now they're stuck behind huge grind walls designed solely to force players towards the MB. Buying stuff on the MB should be optional, not forced down on our throats.

So to the development team: when ARR was released players complained about prices being too low and supply too high, and you responded with mechanics designed to limit supply and, ultimately, to drive players away from gathering and crafting.

You completely disregarded the players that were happy with how things were at release and you've been punishing us with more and more of these mechanics ever since.

Please start taking into consideration players that want to be self-sufficient and that love crafting and gathering. I have absolutely no interest in selling things on the MB, I only want to craft my own gear and furniture. Please allow me to do so without subjecting me to mechanics that are designed solely to keep MB prices high. You already implemented a system where we craft untradable items to get scrips, please further this system to allow players like me to synth their own untradable equipment and furniture with lower requirements. Will this cause prices at the MB to lower? More likely than not. But it will also make crafting and gathering more fun and entice more players to take advantage of these systems. That's more than a fair trade for lower prices.

Hopefully Thursday's patch will bring adjustments to several of these problems, but it's hard to keep my hopes up considering the development's team obsession with high prices.

[Issac]

The amount of effort crafting needs directly translates to prices on the MB. I think they should wait until prices have stabilized (As in, so many want to sell it that it feels like it's not worth selling anymore) before nerfing everything to ease. I'm still making gil right now, people are still buying my crap right now.

Leave that alone for now.

[Yutsimaki]

The amount of effort crafting needs directly translates to prices on the MB. I think they should wait until prices have stabilized (As in, so many want to sell it that it feels like it's not worth selling anymore) before nerfing everything to ease. I'm still making gil right now, people are still buying my crap right now.

Leave that alone for now.

NOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
Sure the weapons and gear are overpriced, but the Crafters are going mad with power!!! 1 HQ Mythrite nugget is 20k, 1 Holy Water 30k, and arch leather 25k. Don't get me started on the farming.....
The only thing that's price dropping is that glamour bait thavnarian bustier.

I usually offer free crafting, but farming is difficult and mats are too expensive

[StrejdaTom]

I have only 56 GSM and 60 CUL but I think they should wait a bit with the fixing.. atleast for a month or two.

[Gilthas]

In any case, if you don't want to spend your gil on the MB, level crafts.

But that's just it, these mechanics that you defend are designed to punish and push away players that want to be self-sufficient. So it's ridiculous to both say that they're fine and to also tell people to level crafts. I and many others want to craft, what we don't want is a second job when we log-in.

[Issac]

But that's just it, these mechanics that you defend are designed to punish and push away players that want to be self-sufficient. So it's ridiculous to both say that they're fine and to also tell people to level crafts. I and many others want to craft, what we don't want is a second job when we log-in.

As it stands right now, you can turn a profit simply buying mats off the MB and turning them into components needed that other crafters want. Or you know, put on a show and gather 500 mythrite sand, 100 mythril ore, and make an even bigger profit because you didn't need to buy anything. It takes me about 60-90 minutes to gather 500 sand, depending on how often gathering attempts +2 nodes spawn.

But if you don't want it to be a "second job" as you say, buy the sand, make the nuggets, sell the nuggets at a profit. And in the interim, look at that, you got exp on your gsm, arm, or bsm. Please stop complaining and use your head.

[Hypie]

Classism isn't cool man

I mean I want money, I don't really care who it comes from. And then I use that money to pay for materials to make things for my FC for free. Branding entire groups for something an individual said or did is how wars start.

Well but in this Case Classism is legal. I mean look at the MB, now look to me, back at the MB...and back to me...see any Old Spice? No you don't. Why?

Well easy because PvE Players have no means to get these ridiculous amounts of Gil Crafters want from us. If i want to buy this crafted Shit i would be forced to do RMT. And Boy thats the last thing i want to do.

So it would be really good to flood the Market with easy Stuff. To Crush the Monopol or Oligarchy thats Active and make a Player friendly Economy.


But this would hurt teh Crafters! Guess what...you Job is to support the Fighting Classes not bled em dry. Your Job is to provide crafted Stuff for those of us who have weeks long bad Drop Luck.

Make Materials easy affordable and farmable and ruin this skyrocketed MB. Look at Warcraft. Ppl still Buy Crafted Stuff all Day and the Price is so low. Well Warcraft has a Garrison where you can make Gold. What do PvE Players have here to make Gil? Nothing.

On the other Side what do you get from such high Prices...nobody Buys it.

On a Side note would be cool to make a boykott of the MB....

This is the first time I've heard of this. Considering everyone is a PvE player, does that mean I'm supposed to hate players like me, too?

In any case, if you don't want to spend your gil on the MB, level crafts.

I rather jump the Grind Mill of Tomes again before i start with the radioactive Waste that is called "Crafting".

Other Questions are already answered at the other Quote.

[Atlaworks]

Snip.

Dude what seriously if I replaced "Gil Crafters" or "PvE Players" with a skin color you would like have rioters after you

Also it's not our job to support jack, crafters aren't here for you, gatherers aren't here for crafters, and fishers aren't here for jack because most fish are useless anyway. Players have their own agenda and choose to do what they want with their time; I support my FC because I enjoy it, but if I have spare material I'm just just going to roll around in a heap of materials, because I could be making gil off of that. The only thing you need to do is to go make it yourself if it's that big a deal to you; nothing is stopping you from making your own gear if the costs are really that bad except your own willpower.

It's not like crafted gear is even viable in endgame anyway geez, maybe save this topic for thursday
---

Yeah I got my leatherworking from 57-60 just by buying dragon skins, HQing draogn leather, and reselling it at a markup. Honestly I just didn't have any other way to hit 60 in the timeframe of a day and had an FC mater who wanted one of those ninja kirimu coats.

Still made profit off of it and didn't need to gather a thing. I don't like some of the requirements on items, but I can deal, for the most part- generally what I do is, I craft materials, sell the HQ, and use the NQ for whatever my final project is, and just HQ that final project.

I don't really like leather taking 3 skins though. But that's mostly because it's weird. Like, are you just gluing them together? How does the log come into play in that? It's nitpicky, but I just wonder where the rest of those skins go.

[hobostew]

Have any of you considered that maybe it has nothing to do with MB prices and almost entirely with making crafting/gathering more time consuming so that you stay subscribed longer on account of it taking more time to get anything done? Short of there being some exploit that floods the economy with gil I can't really imagine SE getting too concerned with the in game economy. Best case (for the player) they ease up on the grind if enough players are unhappy about it but I'm not holding my breath.

[Yutsimaki]

Have any of you considered that maybe it has nothing to do with MB prices and almost entirely with making crafting/gathering more time consuming so that you stay subscribed longer on account of it taking more time to get anything done? Short of there being some exploit that floods the economy with gil I can't really imagine SE getting too concerned with the in game economy. Best case (for the player) they ease up on the grind if enough players are unhappy about it but I'm not holding my breath.

With most mats requiring waiting for nodes, it gets annoying.