The broken FFXIV Holy trinity

[Khalithar]

Power creep is what bad MMO's do. FFXIV resolves this by having ilevel sync so you can't just solo every piece of content with an AOE burn and a stack of healing pots. But the ilevel sync is not set at a point that actually makes the dungeons fun, rather it's set at a level that either makes them not a challenge, or not set at all (eg MSQ,and all Raids) so that it becomes a push over and not worth the reward for the time spent.

Disagree, player power should increase, I've played in games with very little power creep, it's just awful when my character doesn't feel that much more powerful because of the lack of player power increase. I've always preferred incremental vertical progression models for MMO's where your power does increase and in time it does reach the point where you can overpower old content. If anything I'd prefer gear did more in the lower level dungeons and that our various skills and abilities wouldn't be locked out and instead just have their numbers reduced appropriately.

@SarcasmMisser, 6 tanks and 6 heals in 24 player raid is too damn many to begin with.

No game with that many players in a raid has taken more than 3 tanks(norm is 2) and 5 healers unless your raid is bad and stands in stuff.

Both of my last raid teams 4 healed 24/25 player raids. WoW's lfr is 2 tank 5 heal.

6 and 6 is entirely unnecessary.

Labyrinth of the of the ancients in the duty finder gives you six tanks and six healers for some reason.

[Cakekizy]

Disagree, player power should increase, I've played in games with very little power creep, it's just awful when my character doesn't feel that much more powerful because of the lack of player power increase. I've always preferred incremental vertical progression models for MMO's where your power does increase and in time it does reach the point where you can overpower old content. If anything I'd prefer gear did more in the lower level dungeons and that our various skills and abilities wouldn't be locked out and instead just have their numbers reduced appropriately.



Labyrinth of the of the ancients in the duty finder gives you six tanks and six healers for some reason.

Well alliance is split up later, so this allows each group to have 2 tanks and 2 healers when doing Atomos event.

[Khalithar]

Well alliance is split up later, so this allows each group to have 2 tanks and 2 healers when doing Atomos event.

Ah gotcha, that makes sense. I only did Labyrinth once and the other tank told me to smack Atomos for a while and not to worry about anything else. Then doing Syrcus and WoD I thought it was weird there were only three tanks instead of the six from the raid before.

[Lemuria]

Well alliance is split up later, so this allows each group to have 2 tanks and 2 healers when doing Atomos event.

Labyrinth was a bit of a mess to be honest. It feels like they struggled to find a good use for the extra tanks, but didn't want to change the party makeup to accommodate the fights. Instead they accommodated the fights to suit the party, and as a result it feels so out of place compared to the other two Crystal Tower fights.

Since Labyrinth was their first 'experiment' with 24 player raids, it only made sense that later ones would be more refined. That's why Syrcus Tower and World of Darkness only have 1 tank per party.

[KisaiTenshi]

Labyrinth was a bit of a mess to be honest. It feels like they struggled to find a good use for the extra tanks, but didn't want to change the party makeup to accommodate the fights. Instead they accommodated the fights to suit the party, and as a result it feels so out of place compared to the other two Crystal Tower fights.

Since Labyrinth was their first 'experiment' with 24 player raids, it only made sense that later ones would be more refined. That's why Syrcus Tower and World of Darkness only have 1 tank per party.

I think the intent was to have the parties take on "3 parts" where the MT in each party tanks the attacking boss and the OT picks up the adds. Because all the dungeon designs of Labyrinth save for the last boss reflects this pattern.

With ST, it's all single-boss designs, where the main tank should be tanking the boss, and the adds should be tanked by the OT's. In practice this isn't what happens. The DPS just pick off the adds with no tanking being done at all.

In WoD, they combined the split path element from Labyrinth again, and also added a different mechanic for Cerberus (going inside) that also split the parties up.

But I think the real reason for this change was that there simply aren't enough Tanks to split across 3 raids. Not until there is some roulette mechanism at least.

[Sapphic]

Well alliance is split up later, so this allows each group to have 2 tanks and 2 healers when doing Atomos event.

And pretty much only needed for one fight. Everything else can be done with max 2 tanks. aka behemoth and the giant. The other tanks are just pointlessly stood clicking towers. Thus the reduction of needed tanks in CT and WoD as it is easier to design content for 3 tanks rather than 6, and TBH 3 tanks is overneeded for CT and WoD as well.

[KisaiTenshi]

And pretty much only needed for one fight. Everything else can be done with max 2 tanks. aka behemoth and the giant. The other tanks are just pointlessly stood clicking towers. Thus the reduction of needed tanks in CT and WoD as it is easier to design content for 3 tanks rather than 6, and TBH 3 tanks is overneeded for CT and WoD as well.

IMO Labyrinth is designed backwards. The first battle splits everyone up... from a central location. It should have started from 3 locations.

It would have made more logical design sense to split the raid into parties of 4 and start them in different locations (think FF6's final dungeon.) Then after they defeat the boss of that area it unlocks the checkpoints for the other parties, the first two parties to hit the checkpoint become Alliance A, the next two become Alliance B, and the last two become Alliance C, and the next/final boss requires A B and C to do different mechanics (eg like with WoD's Cerberus.) That ensures that the "best" alliance is formed to take on the hard job.

A meaner setup would actually take that idea and do a bit of a "weakest link" elimination so that it starts with 24-60 solo players, and ends with the "best" 24 before the final boss. That would essentially allow "everyone on the server" to queue for it, regardless of their job (eg it could be 6 tanks, 6 healers, and how many DPS are sitting in queue,) and players that are truely bad at their job just get ejected before it forms an alliance with the remaining 24. The only reason that this doesn't make "good" sense is because you would get players who never get past the elimination round the majority of the time, and the only way they get to finish is by having people volunteer to drop out. It would also likely take too long as players would have to vote off the weakest players, and those that know they are bad will just wait for the timeouts to spite everyone.