The broken FFXIV Holy trinity

[KisaiTenshi]

Oh look, now it's spreading to the General Forum.

For those of you who haven't read the healer's forum even once:

a) There is one group that is perfectly fine with Cleric Stance, and would object to Cleric Stance being changed in any way. They encourage, if not berate healers who do not DPS doing any content. Their angle is "then why do we even have Cleric Stance" or "Why do we have DPS skills at all?", some of them have a point.
b) There is another group that regards the Cleric Stance is a game mechanic that was originally intended so healers can play the storyline content and not be forced to roll a DPS character just to get through the solo parts. The players recognize their primary role in the party is to be the healer, and are just fine with not DPS'ing.
c) And then there is a third set of players who can't do either effectively and are just filling the healer slot because it's a faster queue. They insist on fulltime DPS'ing and are making DF's for Raids (particularly 24-main content) infuriating when there are too many of them across the alliance. It is not just players filling Healer slots for faster queues, but there are also players filling Tank slots because they are faster queues.


Yoshi-P isn't going to take Cleric Stance Away just because some of you like to DPS during party content. The argument and frustration is with players who are frequently and repeatedly using Cleric Stance as an excuse to shirk the healing job entirely, particularly during content that can easily be completed without the healer contributing any DPS. The frustration is not at players who use DPS skills because the party takes too little damage. The Frustration is not at players who want to speed the run up slightly.

[Cynfael]

Oh look, now it's spreading to the General Forum.

...you actively helped spread it. That comment is too rich.

a) There is one group that is perfectly fine with Cleric Stance, and would object to Cleric Stance being changed in any way. They encourage, if not berate healers who do not DPS doing any content. Their angle is "then why do we even have Cleric Stance" or "Why do we have DPS skills at all?", some of them have a point.
b) There is another group that regards the Cleric Stance is a game mechanic that was originally intended so healers can play the storyline content and not be forced to roll a DPS character just to get through the solo parts. The players recognize their primary role in the party is to be the healer, and are just fine with not DPS'ing.

I just...can't.

[Verdan]

You know, if you're gonna pick a thing to crusade about all over the forums, at least pick something that's important and helps everyone.
I donno, like housing availability. Let's pretend instead of bringing up how healers aren't meant to do damage, every time you posted you talked about how hard it was for people to get houses in this game. I think that'd be more productive.

[KisaiTenshi]

You know, if you're gonna pick a thing to crusade about all over the forums, at least pick something that's important and helps everyone.
I donno, like housing availability. Let's pretend instead of bringing up how healers aren't meant to do damage, every time you posted you talked about how hard it was for people to get houses in this game. I think that'd be more productive.

There is nothing wrong with housing in this game. If you make housing cheap for everyone, then nothing but bots will fill them up to flip them as another source of RMT. But that is not this thread.

This thread is about players not working well together because they do not understand their roles in the party and how the game is balanced based on those roles. The OP was mentioning how players who primarily DPS simply try to faceroll over everything in the game like the mechanics don't matter.

The entire thing blew up across the healer forums (in this thread, back here) because of something Yoshida said on 5-19 which runs counter to a popularly held argument over the healer's role in the party.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ount-for-raids
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...cus-on-healing.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uld-you-use-it

Now look at the tone 6 months ago:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eons-and-Raids
Or last year
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Not-DPS-Debate

And that is not even looking at reddit and 4chan.

Yoshi-P says Healer DPS was not taken into account when designing the content. "Healer must DPS" argument is completely demolished. End of story. That doesn't retroactively fix the game balance where players are trying to faceroll over content.

Do we throw more doors, keys and switches to slow down speedpullers? How about making the dungeons more about exploring and less about being a linear race to the finish line? How about making the trash mechanics AI smarter? Here comes a party with two healers, let's pick off the one not in CS since it will healing more.

[Musashidon]

snip

*joins fc with house* yep truly difficult.

[Nadirah]

Gonna sink your ship on wow's mythic dungeons. They're still aoeable in as little as lfr gear.

All they did was up numbers.

[Nadirah]

There is nothing wrong with housing in this game. If you make housing cheap for everyone, then nothing but bots will fill them up to flip them as another source of RMT. But that is not this thread.

--

Wait what? EQ2 has instanced housing for everyone of all sizes and shapes and one of the biggest mmo housing communities on the planet.

Making housing easy to get doesn't automatically make bots nab them. Noninstanced housing with a limited number of plots is what does it.

I want to be able to garden. Average members don't get to use the plots here at my fc house. I'd just use a planter in my room... Oh wait.

[elemental10]

lol

It's not the dungeons the problem, mate.

It's us that we're overgeared!

Oh.... some people....

"Hmm... The game is too easy... But why?" *waves Dreadwyrm Staff to the audience

[Felis]

The only holy trinity that need a rebalance is the battle-crafter-gatherer trinity.
Most of the time during 2.x there was only the crafter-gatherer duality, with the battle role as stand alone.

[Lemuria]

There is nothing wrong with housing in this game. If you make housing cheap for everyone, then nothing but bots will fill them up to flip them as another source of RMT. But that is not this thread.

There is far more wrong with housing than anyone wants to admit to. The lack of instancing, the abhorrent costs, and the fact that every home is already taken before you can even blink when they add more wards.

DPS healers... not so big a deal in my opinion. Sure, you'll get some idiots who think that spamming Holy instead of actually healing is considered beneficial, then blame the tank when they inevitably die. You also get some idiots who forget they're in clerics stance and start madly spamming heals on you because they didn't realize it reduces cures by 20%. But there are plenty of people out there who have a good balance.

If you can do it without it harming the flow, then go for it.

Besides, regardless of what Yoshi-P says I firmly believe that some content was designed with healer DPS in mind. I base this on the sheer amount of damage needed in those instances and the minimum ilvl set by the developers. Simply put, in much high end content, you would be hard-pressed to win without healer damage if you played at the base item level for that dungeon simply because there are often rage mechanics in place.