I feel like I've won a battle

[pandabearcat]

Pure potency wise,

DoTs + sflare + miasma II + blizz II + occasional Egi cleave is better than Fire II.

Obviously there are setup issues, but with blizz III downtime its about equal in that regard.

The problem lies in that SMN can't aoe for more than 20 seconds without being completely OOM, because it doesn't have the umbral to support blizz II spam, nor can it put up dots without destroying mana.

Also since bane is 4 targets only (why...?) during mass AoE smn just loses.

The main things are

1. Bane really needs to not have aoe cap.
2. Need an actual AoE pet (whose autoattacks are AoE/cleave).
3. Need a class based AoE that doesn't suck.

I am discounting flare atm because you could also Enkindle for similar damage, obviously though only in one big burst.

[Akiza]

Pure potency wise,

DoTs + sflare + miasma II + blizz II + occasional Egi cleave is better than Fire II.

Obviously there are setup issues, but with blizz III downtime its about equal in that regard.

The problem lies in that SMN can't aoe for more than 20 seconds without being completely OOM, because it doesn't have the umbral to support blizz II spam, nor can it put up dots without destroying mana.

Also since bane is 4 targets only (why...?) during mass AoE smn just loses.

The main things are

1. Bane really needs to not have aoe cap.
2. Need an actual AoE pet (whose autoattacks are AoE/cleave).
3. Need a class based AoE that doesn't suck.

I am discounting flare atm because you could also Enkindle for similar damage, obviously though only in one big burst.

Discounting Flare because Summoners can Enkindle lmfao. Flare isn't on a 300s cool down in fact it doesn't have a cool down at all and it has a higher base potency than Enkindle. Flare can be worked into the rotation every minute if used propery becuase of the astral fire and umbra ice mecahnic also if Black Mages really wanted to they can Flare every 30s with Fire III into Flare rotation. Summoner can only use Enkindle once per fight since its on an insanley long cool down for the damge it does. If Enkindle' cool down was 30s or its potency was 2500 then it can be compared to Flare.

[pandabearcat]

super QQ

I discounted flare because you do not flare too often outside of a bursty type of scenario, and Enkindle with pet buffs up is probably the strongest burst attack in the game. Similarly, I also discounted pet AoE, as the pets all have a low CD aoe they can use as well.

Similarly, you won't really be AoEing for longer than 30 seconds, if you do SMN is already down because of its mana. This is also a scenario that doesn't come up often.

You cannot also just look at Flare's potency. Flare is awkward to use without cooldowns, and it introduces downtime into their rotation. SMN's AoE is consistent and has no real downtime, so it is steady damage. Furthermore, it takes the place of a Fire II.

Notably, SMN is far better at cleaving fights of low AoE numbers, 2-4 targets where it can efficiently AoE while still doing 90% of single target dps to primary burn target.

[melflomil]

I discounted flare because you do not flare too often outside of a bursty type of scenario, and Enkindle with pet buffs up is probably the strongest burst attack in the game. Similarly, I also discounted pet AoE, as the pets all have a low CD aoe they can use as well.

Similarly, you won't really be AoEing for longer than 30 seconds, if you do SMN is already down because of its mana. This is also a scenario that doesn't come up often.

You cannot also just look at Flare's potency. Flare is awkward to use without cooldowns, and it introduces downtime into their rotation. SMN's AoE is consistent and has no real downtime, so it is steady damage. Furthermore, it takes the place of a Fire II.

Notably, SMN is far better at cleaving fights of low AoE numbers, 2-4 targets where it can efficiently AoE while still doing 90% of single target dps to primary burn target.

No it's not, the highest I've seen enkindle hit is about 2400 and that is with all buffs and with BIS

A Flare non buffed hits for about 3000. I would even say with one stack of atral fie 1 a flare is stronger.