I feel like I've won a battle

[Shamirah]

mmh.

Has it occured to anyone that maybe tri disaster does not require aether flow ?

And to Alberel : to me, it works like that : you use your 3 stacks of aether flow and for each stack used you gain one stack of bahamut aether. Once you reach 3 stack you can cast Dreadwyrm Trance. Otherwise it'd be pointless.... what's the point of building all those 3 stacks only to have them be gone in one spell.

my reasoning is based on this traduction from Slycer (thanks) found here : http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...t-5-18-5-21%29

"After playing with each of the jobs, summoner felt to be the most challenging. Instead of receiving a new Egi, summoners are receiving a new element where they can harbor the power of Bahamut, called Bahamut Aether.

Within this, there is a procedure involved before you can release the power of Bahamut. First, when you utilize actions which consume a stack of Aetherflow from the pool, you'll receive the Bahamut Aether buff for 30 seconds. Upon earning Bahamut Aether, new abilities known as Dreadwyrm Trance become available. With this, you can use the power of Bahamut to increase your own attack power.

Of course, this is all intertwined with existing elements like the normal DoT management, but to ease this, Tri-disaster will be reborn as a spell worthy of its name learned at level 56 which applies Bio, Bio II, and Miasma at the same time. The original technique has been renamed as Tri-bind.

You won't learn Deathflare and Dreadwyrm Trance until you're close to the level cap. There have also been various adjustments to existing summoner actions, so it will feel quite different when it reaches level 60, similar to the change in the black mage rotation. We got the impression that summoner would be a powerful job, but complex to operate. "

[Hustensaft]

Has it occured to anyone that maybe tri disaster does not require aether flow ?

The only source of Tri-Disaster costing Aetherflow was from the liveletter translation, but as Spellbinder has written, the japanese "text" actually never states that the action that applies Bio+II and Miasma costs Aetherflow. Just as well as pcGamesN seems to be the only source on Painflare costing Bahamut-Ether.

At least for me it doesn't make much sense to have more than one Bahamut-Ether spender. Why? Because any time you do not get to cast that awesome looking Death Flare will feel like a lost some part of actually being Bahamut.

And to Alberel : to me, it works like that :

That's the same as the other japanese sites writes: Consume Aetherflow stacks Bahamut-Ether (up to 3 with a 30 sec duration) - Bahamut Trance can be activated once you have 3 stacks and will be a damage buff for 15 seconds - in Trance you get access to Deathflare.

[Spellbinder]

snip

I'm sorry Alberel, but I assume nothing. I read the Japanese articles. Here's what I translated earlier in this thread. Read it carefully.

"Perhaps the most interesting new feature is the "Bahamut Aether" [name probably subject to change in English], which is accumulated as players use Aetherflow."

"After accumulating three stacks of "Bahamut Aether," players can activate the ability Dreadwyrm Trance."

Using aetherflow gives us stacks of Bahamut Aether, after we have three stacks, we can use Dreadwyrm Trance.

Now I want you to look at this picture, taken from another Japanese article.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...ff_26.jpg.html

The caption reads:
バハムートエーテルを貯める「ペインフレア」

The way it's worded is a little odd, but it more or less reads "Painflare, a skill used to accumulate stacks of Bahamut Aether." And how do we accumulate stacks of Bahamut Aether?

accumulated as players use Aetherflow

So it stands to reason that if Aetherflow is used to accumulate stacks of Bahamut Aether, Painflare must require Aetherflow.

They also have another picture.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...ff_25.jpg.html

It's caption reads:
新しくなった「トライディザスター」

This one is straight to the point: The new Tri-Disaster.

So if we go back to the video, we've seen Tri-Disaster, Painflare, Dreadwyrm Trance (Bahamut head), and Deathflare. There's only one other skill left in that video, and the other article I translated earlier already alludes to Ruin III.

[ShinryuReishiki]

The skill you call Painflare was also used before Dreadwyrm Trance when we already have confirmation it requires the trance to use... so yeah it's not Painflare.

It's Painflare.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...ff_26.jpg.html
'Save Bahamut Aether "Painflare"'

[Shamirah]

mmh something bugs me in the video. He only uses 2 spells before Dreadwyrm Trance... and he should use 3 spells to get 3 stacks.

[Hustensaft]

mmh something bugs me in the video. He only uses 2 spells before Dreadwyrm Trance... and he should use 3 spells to get 3 stacks.

Could have spent Aetherflow before video-capture started, or dev-powered debug mode that doesn't require stacks.

[Spiritreaver1217]

FFXI, Aion, RFOnline, Vanguard... there are a LOT of MMOs out there that have featured the pet as the medium for all (or most) of your skills rather than casting them yourself. It's been done before and that is how Summoners in the FF universe have ordinarily worked in the past. WoW's Warlock works because the mechanics make sense within the lore of WoW's universe. FFXIV's Summoner does feel very cobbled together with it's random combination of elemental pets and a bunch of poison spells. The fact it imitates WoW's Warlock so closely is sort of the problem for many I think.

Plan to continue reading all of the posts in this thread, but wanted to speak at FFXI's SMN a second. And why you really shouldn't hold that iteration of a pet job up as an example of anything, except an example of what NOT to do when making one.

In that game SMN was a trophy job for the most part until very much later in that games life-cycle. And that was because of, in no small part, the actual summons being the centerpiece of the job. Unfortunately, the stupid perpetuance cost coupled with a dearth of actual abilities for the SMN to use apart from summons led to SMNs being shoe-horned into a crappy, pseudo healer role by the playerbase using the non-native cures from a subjob and their massive MP pool. Also led to SMNs being told to not actually summon anything, or to summon quickly, use a pact, and quickly release-so as to not preclude any Cure 3 spam....

Now i'm not omniscient or anything like that, so i can't say that if the pets were the main focus of FFXIV's SMN they'd have turned out like XI's; but as it is the same company at the wheel, i am actually pretty glad they went the other way with it thus far.

On a not completely unrelated note, i remember from XI-and being a SMN there as well-many a time SMN's there asked for focus to be shifted from the summons some and back toward the summoner, as it is here in XIV. I personally would have put a few more direct dmg actions in the job's arsenal from the jump, instead of the over abundance of dot's, but that is just me. Most importantly though, here while the summon is still a good chunk of the job, SMNs are not gutted when a summon is killed.

Sorry for the ramble, but just seeing FFXI's SMN class being used as a positive example of pet class design(even briefly) made me cringe a bit. Loved the job in XI, but it was a hot mess for a long time before coming to some semblance of a functional design recently.

[Edellis]

1) Skill/Spellspeed changes
2) Skill/Spellspeed affecting DoTs
3) Summoner is a DoT class

Summoner is already a new class in 3.0 off basic system mechanic changes alone.

4) Changes to existing skills
5) AKH MORN
6) Possible ability to personalize your Egi

Honestly? It's not seeming unlikely that Summoner probably got the most attention out of any other class in this update. If you people want the summoner class to be Yuna from FFX, where everyone stops and drools over your self-absorbed awesomness, time stops and a 20-second CG plays whenever you decide to do something, then, yes, at this point you should just go play another game.

And don't even get me started over people crying about not getting more Egi. That comes down to the same problem addressed when people were complaining about BLM not being an element wheel user, with Fire/Blizzard/Thunder/Dark I II III and IV redundantly clouding up their cross bar, while expecting content to bend around it make every single one of them useful. Silly design decisions like that is why the magician class in MMOs are so commonly badly designed, and typically suck as a consequence.


I'm all for constructive complaining about classes, Summoner is probably my least favorite of ARR's design decisions. But complaining about stuff and calling it bad simply because it's not the way you would have made it is getting kind of old. There's no way to guess how drastically Summoner has changed.

[Spellbinder]

Honestly? It's not seeming unlikely that Summoner probably got the most attention out of any other class in this update. If you people want the summoner class to be Yuna from FFX, where everyone stops and drools over your self-absorbed awesomness, time stops and a 20-second CG plays whenever you decide to do something, then, yes, at this point you should just go play another game.

I mean no disrespect, but comments like this are why we can't have civil discussion on making pet-related improvements to Summoner.


Whenever someone puts a synonym for "adjustments" and "Egi" in the same sentence, people immediately jump to this sort of conclusion when it's not necessarily what people are asking for. Take this comment for example (note it's not mine):

Personally I feel like the majority of the Summoner issues originate simply from pet movement, their attack/queue mechanics, and their control scheme, and find it only common sense that pets won't become an especially enjoyable element of Summoner gameplay until those are fixed

Is it unreasonable to want Egi to actually respond when we click a command? Is it unreasonable for them to have competent AI? Is it unreasonable to want Enkindle to actually activate when the button is pressed? (If I had a dime for every time I wasted that five minute cooldown.)

Improving the Egi does not have to mean calling Dalamud down from the sky, or cracking open the earth to unleash the gods of olde at a button press.

[Edellis]

Improving the Egi does not have to mean calling Dalamud down from the sky, or cracking open the earth to unleash the gods of olde at a button press.

lol

Yes, i edited a mention that i really don't care all that much for Summoner, almost solely based on how unintuitive its control mechanics are. What you're suggesting makes the most sense of senseness, but it's rarely what I read when i peek into these topics.