Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Natashio]

I sorry I'm late for the party Richter....but



Seriously...do people need to jump on the forums and whine and complain about every single time something pinches them on that soft spot in Duty Finder... Crazy serious..just get over it. This is the consequences and mayor con of the Duty Finder. You are always going to get knuckleheads as likewise you will get nice people. At the end you are not going to care a minute for what reasons those other 3/7/23 people are in there for. You are just going to get your thing done and leave.. Period.

I've said a few times already in these forums that Duty Finder is the worst thing I have ever had to deal with this game. But people wanted a new WoW, so you got your WoW..

And no..I did not read the original post.. I didn't have to because it just a copy and paste of all the complain about Duty Finder posts.

[Adire]

snip

My point is, when the problem at hand is that there is a tie about the issue of mob pulling, the person who does the mob pulling (the tank) should have the most weight in making the final call.

In any profession, the authority on a field is going to have superior weight behind their opinion in that field than other people. Does that mean they have more value than other people as a person overall? No!

The same concept applies here. When pulling mobs is the problem, the tank should get the final say about it in a tie. Does it mean that their rights as a person trump the others? No. But when personal rights are tied, it's best to give the final say so to the authority on the matter, in this case, the person playing the job whose job entails pulling mobs.

A dps trying to make the final call on that in a tie when it is in no way part of their role's intended function is like an amateur photographer being in the room with 2 other photographers and one surgeon who are all given equal role rights in the surgery. Should they all be considered equal in rights as human beings? Yes. Should they all be considered equal in rights for deciding how a surgery should proceed? No.

Would you want the photographers being equal to the surgeon in a surgery? I know I wouldn't. In a tie here, the surgeon should make the final call.

Community approval of tanks pulling vs disapproval of dps pulling exists for a reason you know.

[cgbspender]

150 more pages and it´ll beat the "healers horror story" thread. With just ONE tank story. We ´re close to a record.

[StouterTaru]

A dps trying to make the final call on that in a tie when it is in no way part of their role's intended function is like an amateur photographer being in the room with 2 other photographers and one surgeon who are all given equal role rights in the surgery. Should they all be considered equal in rights as human beings? Yes. Should they all be considered equal in rights for deciding how a surgery should proceed? No.

Would you want the photographers being equal to the surgeon in a surgery? I know I wouldn't. In a tie here, the surgeon should make the final call.

This analogy would make sense if the other 3 people in your party were DoL/DoH jobs, or if any surgical team ever consisted of a surgeon and 3 people taking pictures.

Again you say your vote isn't any more important than anyone else's, but it is the tie breaker. Stop acting entitled, because I'm the entitled one.

[Ceodore]

My point is, when the problem at hand is that there is a tie about the issue of mob pulling, the person who does the mob pulling (the tank) should have the most weight in making the final call.

In any profession, the authority on a field is going to have superior weight behind their opinion in that field than other people. Does that mean they have more value than other people as a person overall? No!

The same concept applies here. When pulling mobs is the problem, the tank should get the final say about it in a tie. Does it mean that their rights as a person trump the others? No. But when personal rights are tied, it's best to give the final say so to the authority on the matter.

Community approval of tanks pulling vs disapproval of dps pulling exists for a reason you know.

Well... if this is true, and his friend was the healer, then I'm willing to bet the other dps and the healer were voting for a full clear. Since your vote doesn't count, if you're truly playing the middle man and not wanting to just take the easy way out, then that is your friend's vote against the two others who probably want a full clear. However, given your strong opinion of your superiority in all things tank, I highly doubt you took the middle man approach. First, don't play the "holier than thou" card when you so obviously don't know how to handle a situation like this properly to prevent it from spiraling out of control. Second, don't pretend to be an expert on at a role when your expertise is only limited to one of the two jobs of that role. (Yes, I know how to use the search function on The Lodestone unlike some) Third, the decision in a dungeon to do a full clear or a fast clear should be left up to the players present who are not level 50 yet. A clear bias towards laziness resides with those that have already maxed level, and if they are in a low level dungeon for any reason, it doesn't take priority over someone who is there for leveling. Just because you or your friend don't want to spend an extra 5 minutes in content you're being level synced to doesn't mean that someone else should have to skip content in the dungeon for your impatient benefits. Doing it for relic? Don't care. Doing it for Zodiac drop? Don't care. Doing it because you were an idiot while leveling and you skipped it? Don't care. They are there to level, they are further behind, and they need more help than your impatient entitled butt sitting on your high horse.

Before you get all pissy, yes, I'm a tank, yes I play Paladin and Warrior, along with all the other jobs. And yes, in any lower level content, I always ask the people who aren't at 50 yet if they would like a full clear. Him demanding you do a full clear is just evidence of more lazy and impatient tanks like yourself. Just because he was rude doesn't mean you should be the "rebel" which is just another way of saying you were just as rude. If you don't want to help out someone who is still leveling, then don't go into lower content. But if you do decide to darken the doorways of those dungeons with your stubborn attitude, then don't come here and whine about how you feel someone you deemed below you should bow to you as you condescend him and his healer friend. Perhaps if you were a little more cordial with them from the beginning, they would have listened to you when you asked for AOE. You seem more like Napoleon with a little man complex than really a leader, which is what you seem to think you are.

Being nice and friendly will get you a lot more respect than being brash and stubborn. Like a recent run in AV I had where we had a healer act much like you are when a dps asked for a full clear. I promised the DPS that due to time constraints (Because of all the fighting the DPS and healer were doing and the fact that I had to duo the first boss with just the healer with me because of the fighting) we would finish the dungeon ASAP and then I would go back and slaughter anything we skipped afterwards. Of course, the healer left, but I still made good on my promise and came out of it with respect and commendations from all three people because like a good leader, I tried my best to accommodate everyone. What you did was accommodate just your friend, when it was within your ability to make everyone happy. But because of your stubborn attitude, you don't see that. So, you come here and rage about entitled dps when it's actually you who needs to come down a peg. A little humility will take you much further than your attitude has gotten you so far.

[Adire]

This analogy would make sense if the other 3 people in your party were DoL/DoH jobs, or if any surgical team ever consisted of a surgeon and 3 people taking pictures.

Again you say your vote isn't any more important than anyone else's, but it is the tie breaker. Stop acting entitled, because I'm the entitled one.

I don't recall saying that any surgical team consisted of that. I was speaking theoretically. I think you missed that point.

I've said it numerous times. If I am the tank, my vote should be the tiebreaker if mob pulling is the problem. If I am not the tank, I still think it should be the tank's call because doing that is their job, doing that is their realm. I can't believe I'm being shamed for essentially not condoning DPS pulling mobs without a majority agreement existing.

Yet here we are, with tanks as the role designated to pull mobs by the community and by SE, not dps.

snip

First, As great as it is of someone to pass on using their rights, why on earth should I give up mine when someone is trying to make me their slave immediately? If someone is making demands of me, I am not going to silently bow down to them. If he had asked nicely? I'd gladly give him what he wanted, as I've said oh so many times if you would take a moment to actually read.

Second, I never in this entire thread claimed to be an unnaturally skilled tank. I am skilled, that much I will say, but nowhere have I said that I am superior to most players at tanking. Please do not put words into my mouth. Also, what does the fact that I haven't played WAR much have to do with anything? WAR is a tank, PLD is a tank, I have a good understanding of the role that both fill. I don't have to play WAR to know how to tank.

Third, please read. I offered compromise, they responded with "nope, we're doing it our way 100%", yet I am on a high horse....? I am really getting tired of repeating this. If you aren't willing to be informed about this topic, please do not bother posting without at least admitting that you are uninformed.

Fourth, we asked him to AoE during the first pull's fight. I hadn't gone out of the way to collect mobs because I didn't want to get blasted by the Eye's AoE while fighting the non-optional packs. I wanted to clear them out (especially since no one was AoEing) before gathering the rest, and was taking a moment to figure out how to react to his demands as well. Just because I didn't immediately respond to them with words doesn't mean I was being "stubborn", even though I believe a little stubborness given his disrespect would have been justified. I was doing my job first, and talking second, and was going to go back and get the mobs if he had a change of attitude or agreed to AoE so the dungeon wouldn't take a painfully long time if I went back to get the mobs had he agreed. And I won't lie....I was speechless for a bit after the initial attitude he had.

I was a rebel by pulling the non-optional mobs first when he wanted me to get us all blasted by the eye so that he could get his exp immediately, rather than later. And I was a rebel by asking him to compromise rather than give him 100% what he wanted and sacrifice what we wanted. I was not a rebel by refusing to do anything he said just because. If you had read my post and other posts I've made, you should know this. Context is more important than individual words you know.

And really...there comes a point when a little bit of rebellion is justified. Are you honestly saying it wouldn't irk you if someone demanded that you be their slave? Are you completely missing the parts where I said I would have given him his kills too, if only he had treated me with some respect?

You are being extremely hostile and judgmental of me for someone who is not being referred to by my OP. Perhaps you should take a look at your own attitude. It's sad that I ask for a little respect, and get told to screw off by people like you and the dps in the dungeon. What happened to common decency?

I start a dungeon, get made into a subhuman slave immediately, have a minorly bad reaction in that I remain quiet for a moment after being told I'm a slave, offer a reasonable, small compromise after thinking about what to do after being treated as a subhuman, get told no and that I will do it their way or no way, get insulted, and I am the one who needs to show humility....

Well, like I said. You reap what you sow. This community has lost one good tank who is willing to do clears if treated like a human being.

[Skivvy]

I'm not responding to you again. I moved the quotes from my OP to this page to reduce the clutter in my OP, if you had taken a moment to read that or at least notice that they were gone from my OP, you would have seen that. But alas, people post as if they've read even when they haven't, and I find myself repeating myself yet again to the willfully ignorant.

Anyways, before I even had time to say anything at all, I was ordered by him to not skip anything. Not asked, ordered. This is abusive and insulting, as I am not his slave to order around. I did not do a "gigantic pull", I pulled as I always do in DD. I pulled the first set of 3 mobs into the crystal buff with the other 3 mobs, then he ran off and pulled a few other mobs and brought them to me. I then asked him to AoE, he refused in a rude manner and basically told us to shut up and do what he wanted.

If you've done DD, you should know that the crystal buff makes even this many mobs hit like babies. There were 9 or so mobs total in the buff, that is not a lot of damage at all. Go try it if you don't believe me! Even pulling the entire first half of the dungeon into the crystal buffs is manageable damage with decent gear.


And as much as I'd like to give you pictures, I have logged out since then. If you know of a way to get chat logs, please inform me. I have nothing to hide. You don't have to believe me, but assuming I'm lying without any reason to assume that is not any better. If you find any inconsistencies in my story, please do post about it. The above perceived inconsistency stemmed from you not reading and missing things I said, and I have addressed this false inconsistency once again above. That is your problem, not mine. I've repeated everything I said there multiple times throughout the thread.

Given how quick you are to judge my character without even knowing me and how quick you are to jump on everything I say, assuming the worst each time, and responding to general statements I make by taking jabs at my person, I'm starting to think nothing will please you though. If I had pics, at this point I'd have suspicions that you'd accuse me of doctoring them.

It's amusing how many times you've blamed someone for not listening, but I don't think you even know what you're writing anymore. As of the time of this post, the message I quoted in my previous post did not state anywhere that you were consolidating messages to get them off the main page, merely:

And to address the last few posts:

I'm sorry that I'm not going back through your entire post history to double-check for any random edits.

If you don't have a reasonable answer for someone, you claim that they aren't reading or that they are judging your character without even knowing you. Hate to break it to you, you aired your dirty laundry on a public forum, you gave us the right to judge you based on the story and ever-changing details that you've provided.

Feel free to reply if you like, and by all means, blame me again for not reading (lucky time #3!), but I'm done with this thread. It's clear you're not willing to have a reasonable conversation as you brush off any dissenting voices as a personal attack on you. After seeing that play out in this thread several times, I truly am curious what actually happened in that dungeon.

[MicahZerrshia]

the person who does the mob pulling (the tank) should have the most weight in making the final call.

Simply not true.

I go into dungeons such as AV or DD, as I am currently while working on zodiac drops for my sch, if the tank says flat out "we are not skipping anything" or any other such nonsense I simply leave. I would be more than willing to stay if someone asks if its ok but if its a statement and not a question you can wait for some other schlup to come in and heal for you. I get quick queues too so its no skin off my back.

I do that with dps too. I have run AV and DD enough and have no want to pull every single mob in the dungeon so you can get an tiny little bit of exp more. Now if you are nice and ask I will be accommodating but I'm not going to be told I'm doing something by someone who thinks they are the boss or everyone else cause they carry a sword or axe (quite a common ailment too unfortunately) especially something I have done enough times already.

SE should never have put dungeons under 50 in some of these quests, I understand the mentality for helping new players complete content and its fine on the atma books since I only have to do them once, but on the zodiac quest it was a poor judgment call.

All in all, it should be a vote. If its 2/2, two ppl should roll for it, don't like the results then you can leave no ones stopping you. If the person who wants more mobs looses and they keep pulling, vote dismiss, easy peasy

[Adire]

snip

My point is, when the problem at hand is that there is a tie about the issue of mob pulling

It seems you missed this bit of my quote, the bit that adds the entire context to my sentence at that. I was referring to when there is a TIE, the tank has the most weight. Someone has to be the tiebreaker, why not let the person whose job is to pull be the rightful tiebreaker if no one else can come to any agreement? The community already lets tanks pull by default and disapproves of when dps/healers do it, so the insinuation is there that they already have the most weight for determining when/how pulls happen.

I'm glad we agree that being demanded to do something is very wrong though. If he had asked me nicely, I would have done the clear for him. Same for if he would have agreed to AoE.

snip

Edit: Please go to this post if you want to see the posts I addressed in my OP originally (moved it there to reduce the clutter in the OP):

Yep, you aren't reading. That's right there in my OP. I also had on there for a while today that I'd be trimming the OP down when my post limit reset.

Have a nice day, you just proved my point. If you aren't willing to read, then please do not post with the tenacity of someone who has read. Choosing to be ignorant about something and then speaking about it anyways is not a good thing to do.

I am more than willing to have reasonable conversation when people post who bother to read what I say and when they don't jab at me personally, even if they disagree with me. You can find plenty of examples of that in my thread.

[XgungraveX]

It's sad that I ask for a little respect, and get told to screw off by people like you and the dps in the dungeon. What happened to common decency?

after being ignored and pleas falling deaf ears, the bitterness will set in you will just stop caring and become a cold tank.