Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[LTEvil]

No, see, I don't think you understand.

Zaft is amazing. Take My likes.

[Sanne]

I can understand your anger.
I usually am friendly and go with whatever the party wants, but there are a few buts....

I had a bit same situation with my dps friend. I as tank wanted to do all for my friend, and the healer and blm wanted fast clear. (they both were level synced)

I didn't pull yet because I wanted this first cleared what we would do as group, but blm started pulling....
Well that was for me what annoyed me, so he decided not to talk and just do what he wanted.

I actually was on the point on saying ok, then we do it quick, but that pull made me angry, so me and my friend went our way and healer and blm went their way.
But soon I realized I disliked it like this and asked for a kick, and I got it.

The problem wasn't they wanted it fast, it was the blm starting pulling.

Of course if I just followed what they wanted from the start we would have no trouble, and usually I just do that, but there are times this stuff gets me really annoyed.

But... I see no use why getting offended when dps just says what he wants, just state what you want.
Not everyone is of the nice chat, which is a shame but not everyone is the same in this.

Look how they react, if they act rude, ask for a kick, because you can't come to an agreement with them.
That is how I did it. Or leave if they refuse to compromise and won't kick you.

No point in doing a dungeon when you are annoyed.

[Neri]

In my case however, if they pull, I will try my best to keep all the enmity through all enemies. Well, if the healers or me died trying, I can say that I did my best anyway.

[Fynlar]

Yeah, there is a distinction to be made between accidentally stepping ahead and getting aggro, and intentionally running ahead to pull stuff back. It's usually very obvious which one is which to an attentive tank, and that will make a difference in whether or not I elect to help you out.

[Krylo]

So, as it's come up a lot in this thread, can I just ask why any DPS (or anyone) would WANT a full clear for exp? "They have to wait a half hour/hour obviously they want their exp" has come up a bunch, but you get less that way than doing a speed run and then going back to Fates/Levequests.

Like, okay, fate farming is boring. Sure. And Levequests get tedious. Plus you can't learn how to play your character in a party without doing dungeons. So yes, clearly you want to do a lot of dungeons leveling. Fine. And when you do them you want exp.

But here's the thing: You get a lot of exp for dungeon completion and for boss kills. You get pretty good exp for random trash too--but the exp per minute is going to be lower for random trash than just doing fates or leves. If you're doing full clears, you are, therefore, slowing down your leveling, not speeding it up.

As someone who has started leveling a bunch of DPS classes to 50 to kill time until expansion, and who mains a DPS class, I actually hate it when another DPS asks for full clear. It just makes it take longer for me to get to that next job/class quest that I'm always trying to push toward as personal milestones. With the semi-exception of letting seeds hatch in AV. If you do it right it doesn't really take any more time and it's 10x the exp. If you're killing seeds off for your 'speed run' you're just kind of a dick. But that's the only exception.

On topic: Anyone who read the thread would see that the DPS ran ahead to pull, made a 5 mob pull into a 9 mob pull, and then refused to use his 'one AoE', making it take painfully long. Whenever I get in groups like that I generally tell them to have fun, apologize to any innocent members of the party and leave. If I'm healer or tank I try to remember to ask any innocent DPS what their server is so I can party with them and requeue when I'm able to make it up to them if possible.

I think pulling mobs off the DPS rather than letting him die, and saying, 'Okay we can do a full run, but only if you actually use your AoE skill' is actually going above and beyond what could be expected of anyone dealing with that level of toxicity regardless of their role.

[MirielleLavandre]

If I'm healer or tank I try to remember to ask any innocent DPS what their server is so I can party with them and requeue when I'm able to make it up to them if possible.

While I agree with you, wouldn't it be easier to just vote kick the troll/abusive dps instead of leaving the party? Maybe after one warning? I know I've had some previous FFXI players in groups who were new and still thought ranged dps were supposed to pull, until they were told differently ^^

[Krylo]

While I agree with you, wouldn't it be easier to just vote kick the troll/abusive dps instead of leaving the party? Maybe after one warning? I know I've had some previous FFXI players in groups who were new and still thought ranged dps were supposed to pull, until they were told differently ^^

That's the go to but if there's 2 people together (like the Brayflox I had while leveling my healer where the tank refused to flash adds, I could barely keep myself up through, he got critted and died, and then he and the other DPS blamed me for the wipe after numerous other dickish/arrogant comments, or the LotA alliance that all stepped off their pad and caused a wipe and then got toxic in alliance chat. . .), then I'd prefer to just leave. Also certain levels of toxicity just make me rather leave a dungeon entirely and wind down than to continue onward. That's just me, though.

Maybe full clear also apply to those that want the all map open achievement as well?

Point. I like those as well. And, really, when I'm tanking I've no issue getting them, or doing full clears. Now that I have the only Zeta I ever want, and have pld and war to 30 I'm super laid back as a tank so long as people don't wreck my day.

[Adire]

So, as it's come up a lot in this thread, can I just ask why any DPS (or anyone) would WANT a full clear for exp? "They have to wait a half hour/hour obviously they want their exp" has come up a bunch, but you get less that way than doing a speed run and then going back to Fates/Levequests.

Like, okay, fate farming is boring. Sure. And Levequests get tedious. Plus you can't learn how to play your character in a party without doing dungeons. So yes, clearly you want to do a lot of dungeons leveling. Fine. And when you do them you want exp.

But here's the thing: You get a lot of exp for dungeon completion and for boss kills. You get pretty good exp for random trash too--but the exp per minute is going to be lower for random trash than just doing fates or leves. If you're doing full clears, you are, therefore, slowing down your leveling, not speeding it up.

As someone who has started leveling a bunch of DPS classes to 50 to kill time until expansion, and who mains a DPS class, I actually hate it when another DPS asks for full clear. It just makes it take longer for me to get to that next job/class quest that I'm always trying to push toward as personal milestones. With the semi-exception of letting seeds hatch in AV. If you do it right it doesn't really take any more time and it's 10x the exp. If you're killing seeds off for your 'speed run' you're just kind of a dick. But that's the only exception.

On topic: Anyone who read the thread would see that the DPS ran ahead to pull, made a 5 mob pull into a 9 mob pull, and then refused to use his 'one AoE', making it take painfully long. Whenever I get in groups like that I generally tell them to have fun, apologize to any innocent members of the party and leave. If I'm healer or tank I try to remember to ask any innocent DPS what their server is so I can party with them and requeue when I'm able to make it up to them if possible.

I think pulling mobs off the DPS rather than letting him die, and saying, 'Okay we can do a full run, but only if you actually use your AoE skill' is actually going above and beyond what could be expected of anyone dealing with that level of toxicity regardless of their role.

I wasn't going to post on this topic anymore due to the amount of shaming and hostility shown towards me and lack of reading going on, but I want to thank you for posting this gem and coolheaded, informed response Krylo.

Maybe if they don't read my post, they'll read yours. I did indeed pull mobs off him, and did indeed offer him the option to AoE to get his full run. That should not be unreasonable given that me and my friend were there to get it done ASAP, would have taken more time to do the clear for him, and even more so if he didn't AoE. Demanding that he get his kills is one thing, but then demanding in addition to that that we suffer through a considerably longer dungeon because he doesn't want to AoE is just insane.

Their party made demands of us, pretty much told us "you will do it our way or we will grief you, and we're going to make you watch us single target every single mob even in large pulls". Our party quickly responded after a moment of deliberation after being essentially treated equivalent to objects that we'd be fine with it if he would use his AoE (as he should have been doing since we were pulling large groups, him pulling them included), and asked him to, not demanded that he do it.

We offered compromise and treated them as humans, they offered nothing but stubbornly saying it would be 100% their way and treated us as slaves, yet some people are finding more fault with me and finding me to be entitled. Even after I've said so many times already that I always do clears if asked nicely or if outnumbered by people who want clears.

Offering reasonable compromise, wanting to be treated like a human rather than like an object, and doing clears if treated like a human or if outnumbered does not make me entitled. Sorry people.

snip

I will not be responding to everything you said in your post, as some of it has already been addressed in my other posts and is pretty much just a repeat argument,

You assume your feelings are of some great importance to me, and you assume wrong.

but Ceodore, if you're admitting that my feelings are not important to you, then perhaps you should not be instructing me to care about the feelings of someone who is making demands of me and acting in a very directly disrespectful manner. You should care about feelings if you're going to tell other people to care about them, and I did care about the guy's feelings as evidenced by what I'll mention below again anyways.

And as Krylo said above. What I did was demonstrative of someone who is attempting (and dare I say succeeding to some degree at least?) to be reasonable in the face of extreme toxicity. The compromise, my self control, my consideration of their wishes, my getting the mobs off him when he decided to be obnoxious and pull mobs, all evidence of that. My very temporary quietness was evidence of a person who has been wronged deciding how to react, thinking about what to say, taking a moment to get over the initial treatment I received, discussing with my friend what to do, not evidence of me forfeiting my empathy.

You can assume the worst and say it was me being brash, but all the other pieces of evidence I've mentioned do not take any assumption to realize they are coolheaded reactions in the face of that toxicity, and those many pieces of evidence overwhelm the one, rather assumptive and therefore fragile evidence of the opposite, even if you don't want to take my word for it and were correct in your assumption that I was quiet because of ill will.

Hopefully your original, disproportionate response to my OP came from a misunderstanding of what happened. And hopefully the insults and negative unfounded character assumptions you have been flinging at me have as well. Krylo did a nice, short, and accurate summary of what occurred, if you read her post and still stand by your previous posts, then I can safely say we will not be finding common ground at all here, as I would strongly feel at that point that you do not have the same values I have.

I almost always get at least one commendation when I tank, and as I said, am always more than willing to do clears if treated with respect or if the majority wants one. So I am not as predisposed to having a rotten attitude as you seem to think, and most people who know me well actually think I'm a very nice person, and I do try to be. In fact, you're talking to someone who empathizes even with inanimate objects often :P

The community would do well to remember that every person has a point where they have had enough though. And it would do well to not push people to that point.

[Neri]

Maybe full clear also apply to those that want the all map open achievement as well?

[NorthernLadMSP]

Maybe, just maybe, DPS and healers turned to acting entitled due to all the entitled tanks they have to deal with on a consistent basis.