Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Adire]

We didn't ignore their request otarolgam :/

Though I will say looking back, I should have asked him to rephrase that demand and make it a request. Didn't think about it at the time, can't do anything about that now. Though judging by their reactions after, and the type of person it takes to make a demand of someone rather than a request of them, I'm not so confident he would have been mature enough to do so. Obnoxious people aren't known for being reasonable or admitting fault after all.

We killed the mobs he pulled the first time though, gave them the option to AoE but continue being jerks, so we did give him options. He told us no and threatened us, saying he would only accept a full clear with no AoE. We did not ignore their request, they ignored what we wanted though.

Why should I shoulder most of the blame when I was the one willing to compromise?

[Tuathaa]

Why should I shoulder most of the blame when I was the one willing to compromise?

You shouldn't but you shouldn't claim innocence in the issue either. It takes 2 to tango he rubbed you wrong and then you proceeded to rub him wrong and the whole thing went south.

And I have read every post you made in this thread pre and post edits.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Sigh. It's threads like these that make me glad I quit tanking. What's the fun in queuing up for anything when I'm immediately vilified before I can say hello?

On topic, the OP was not particularly in the wrong, at all. While she may not have handled it perfectly, ultimately the DPS in question was why everything went south.

[Adire]

Yeah, I know your pain Thunda. I've already said that I'm going to stop tanking for anyone except friends myself.

I'm surprised people aren't letting this thread die given that fact.

It's clear a lot of people are judging me to be a jerk tank despite the fact that I always do full clears if asked nicely or if outvoted, so I am removing myself from the pool of tanks. Problem solved in their minds, right?

You'd think that would satisfy them

[GenJoe]

It's clear a lot of people are judging me to be a jerk tank despite the fact that I always do clears if asked nicely or if outvoted

I don't know why people are so offended by that attitude tbh..
I never do clears unless a friend specifically wants it.. Other random people from duty finder? Couldn't care less, they're just pawns if you ask me.. Just the fact you do clears on request or outvoted says you've a lot more patience than me.. I don't deal with that crap, I'll eat a 30 minute penalty if I have to, I'm in it to git er done, not lollygagging around.

I don't say this purely from a tank's point of view.. I play healer also.. I do the same in that case, of course I won't FORCE a tank to not pull extra mobs.. Same when I DPS, I don't see the point of a full clear tbh, you get a bit more exp so what? You want exp that bad? queue again..



Now, let the flaming start..

[Adire]

Problem number one: I respectfully disagree. "no skipping anything" is a demanding statement in my and seemingly in the opinions of most on the thread, on both sides. But let's say I'm wrong. When dealing with humans, you should address humans as humans. You should take the time (a very tiny amount of time in this case) to speak to a human like they're a human. It doesn't take an English major to turn "no skipping anything" into a sentence with obvious good intent, to turn it into an obvious request rather than a (possible?) demand. Simply adding "please" in would work. And I agree. Online it can be hard to tell what people mean, which is why it's important to use etiquette. He did not. Simply the fact that it wasn't worth using etiquette towards us in his mind is insulting. If he had the English ability and time to type those words literally as the barrier was going down, he could have added in "please" or something. There is no excuse to show such an inconsiderate attitude towards me or even to show such apathy in how he chooses to address me, no matter how much you try to justify it. If you're wanting someone to do something for you, you should take the time to show some modicum of effort in how you speak to them.

Problem number two: I am not perfect. I took the time to think of what to say, instead of what I wanted to say immediately. I exercised self control, this is a good thing. I helped him kill the mobs he pulled. This should have "redeemed" the one so called wrongdoing I did by not responding to him immediately or doing what he wanted immediately. If I was egotistical and unreasonable, I would not have done that. I would have let him tank them himself.

Problem number three: Please refer to the above. I helped him kill the mobs he pulled. Thus, I helped him get clear up to that point. I did not pull the mobs myself, but I still dealt with them for him. So, we were giving him what he wanted so far. The very first thing said after "no skipping anything" was when I asked him to AoE. Second, I don't remember what exactly I said when I asked him to AoE, but it was something along the lines of "We're here to get this done ASAP, so would you please AoE? We're going to be here a while if we do a clear for you and don't have AoE." Does this sound like a demand to you? This was followed by my friend saying something about AoEing, asking him why he wasn't or something, followed by him saying he would not be AoEing because he has one AoE, followed by me explaining that even his one AoE against groups of this size would be more damage going out than single targeting. When he made it clear he would not be AoEing despite us asking him to in a civil manner and mentioning we would clear it for him, we continued with the dungeon as I wanted. He then told me if I didn't do optional pulls, he would pull and have the healer let me die. If this threat "makes you chuckle" because you don't see it as a threat, then I don't know what to say. It seems like a threat to me.

Problem number four: This may surprise you, but I'm not denying that I disrespected him by this point. He had lost my respect after he refused to do anything that wasn't 100% what him and the healer wanted. I was willing to forgive his attitude if he was willing to AoE, he was not, and the way he responded to say he was not was extremely rude. So yes, he had lost my respect by this point.

I've said it countless times. I respect people by default. I do full clears, ALWAYS, if asked nicely. I do them ALWAYS if outvoted. We were not outvoted or treated nicely, yet I was still willing to do one in this situation if he had accepted my small compromise. He refused it and continued to disrespect me and my friend to the point where my friend left the dungeon.

I was not a true rebel. I helped him kill mobs he pulled. I tried to discuss things with him when we were inside the crystal buff. The only "rebellion" (which I used the word in my OP lightheartedly in the first place, you are taking it far too seriously) was that I didn't immediately jump as high as he demanded me to. I wanted to figure out what to say first, gauge his attitude, and try to compromise with him before doing what he wanted. Is this rebellion in a way? Yes, because I was not giving him 100% of what he wanted immediately without doing these things first. Is that "unfair" rebellion? I don't think so, personally.

I'm sorry, but for someone so against "assuming", you are really trying to make me look like a monster despite that I showed at the time that I'd be reasonable, and despite that I've shown that I am in this thread if treated with respect. I have admitted that I did not respond in the most optimal manner due to my faults as a human, I am not some egotistical beast who refuses to believe I am perfect like you are assuming I am trying to say. As much as I wish I had responded immediately to him with the perfect response rather than take a moment to figure out what to do, I didn't. But I did not have evil intents.

But don't worry, as I've said, this rotten person will not be plaguing the DF anymore as a tank. The many people I've given full clears to would like to thank the forums and the DPS for that I'm sure. You've gotten justice done today.

[Seiryuukishi]

SNIP

If that's all you got out of that I do not know what to tell you. The entirety of that post was to get you to understand that no matter who instigated it you BOTH, B O T H, screwed up. And for what? Pride? No one is perfect and never will be, but two wrongs don't make a right. Sure you acknowledge you could have done better thus admitting you did wrong. I AM NOT trying to guilt trip you nor am I trying to make you out to be a sadistic monster whose only goal in life is to log onto a GAME and make others' lives miserable. I am trying to get you to understand what you did wrong so that in the future if it an occurrence like this happened again you could think back and go "Hmm, I'll do it this way so I don't have to deal with the headache of arguing". It is not about WHO is wrong, you both were. It's about WHAT went wrong and what future steps can be taken to prevent things like it from happening again. You think I enjoy doing this? I'd rather not have to but if by the end of it all you walk away with some understanding of how to defuse similar situations without having to resort to quiting tanking then so be it. I'm not going to lie and say that I haven't been harsh. That's my nature. If it gets the point across I'll be rougher than granite.

But never mistake my harshness for apathy or worse, hatred. I hate no one. I do hate it when people can't use sense. Admittedly there are times when you just won't get people to be peaceful, timid, or inclined to work with you no matter the disagreement. That's why you have the option to leave the instance or vote kick the person/s. And I do not assume, I take notice of what people act like and base my dealings with them on that. You don't strike me as a "bad" person but you do need to learn to simmer down. Some people are high strung and they are not always going to be pleasant when they word things. It doesn't mean they have a grudge against you. Generally they are less inclined to want to start an argument with you. Ultimately this is a GAME, but as you have interactions with living, breathing human beings just as with real life everyday stuff so as on here you won't get along with every Tom, Dick, and Harry you happen along in DF or otherwise. It's a crap shoot and when emotions are running high cooler heads prevail. It's hard for two or more people to come to an agreement when they're pissed at each other, no?

When it's all said and done it's your choice whether to keep tanking or not or for that matter doing anything in DF. But no matter what you play on here you won't escape stupidity. Either someone will come along with the intention to act like an idiot or something, somewhere will cause another fiasco. Someone has to be the peacemaker and the sooner it happens the better in those ordeals.

[Krylo]

It is not about WHO is wrong, you both were.

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

There's no optional pulls in Dzaemel before the first boss that don't require standing on magitek pads (and, if memory serves, only one group is locked behind those). The first of which is just outside the first crystal area she (said she) pulled to.

There's no reason to assume the tank wasn't doing a full clear--as nothing had been, at that point, skipped. Indeed, the only other skippable pull in that dungeon is at the first exploding crystals, heading down for the optional chest.

A DPS then pulling a bunch of shit that was going to need to be fought eventually, anyway, and then refusing to AoE it, making the whole fight harder on everyone's TP/MP, with no consideration for anyone but himself is 100% in the wrong.

We can sit around all day going on about 'Maybe if you had been polite SOONER' if we want, but that's stupid and a hilarious double standard. Tank has to immediately respond with politeness and roses, but DPS can word anything anyway they like and are to be assumed to be in the best of intentions.

Do you even believe the things you're typing?

[Seiryuukishi]

@Krylo

Once again regardless of whether s/he was being an a$$ or not is beside the point. When someone is or possibly is being hateful do you think you can make it all go away by just by being hateful in kind? Again two wrongs don't make a right. One or the other in that sort of situation has needs to defuse it or things can far worse. People want to act like if they show decency in the face of adversity then they show themselves to be weak. That is wrong. Why bother arguing in a game? What does it gain you or the person you're arguing with?

Do I believe what I am saying? Yes. Why? Because regardless of how many times I have faced with similar and much worse situations, talking through it before it got out of control led to happier endings more often than not. I won't say it works every time. Some people just don't want to be reasonable, at all, ever. But you have options via the game to make it easier on yourself so you don't have to suffer through it.

You don't have to believe me, like me or any other formulation thereof. But that's how it is. It doesn't always work and when it doesn't I either remove myself or the other half of the problem with the aid of party. I will not play at war in something I:

1. Use to unwind at the end of my gruelling work days. I have back and leg pain and would rather not have a headache to compound the problem.
2. Enjoy playing for the simple pleasure of it. I refuse to let stress affect my gameplay experience because it's just unnecessary.
3. Play with others on. When playing MMOs you get all kinds. If you are not prepared for a few road apples making your journey of gaming happiness with family/friends then I am afraid you are in for a long ride.

All it takes is WILLINGNESS. A willingness to communicate at the beginning and failing that the moment a problem starts to show itself. A willingness to swallow enough pride to do the right thing for everyone involved. It is easy to blow up. It is hard to recover from that. And also a willingness to just drop it. As in leave when you cannot get a volatile situation to calm down or kick the person still causing the problem. I'd rather have 30 minutes to chat with friends than 30 minutes to an hour of hatefulness, wouldn't you agree?

[Krylo]

When someone is or possibly is being hateful do you think you can make it all go away by just by being hateful in kind? Again two wrongs don't make a right. One or the other in that sort of situation has needs to defuse it or things can far worse.

If you take OP at face value this is exactly what she did.

Pulled to first possible point where she could have stopped and pulled extras. Stopped to talk. Asked DPS to use AoEs if he was going to do massive pulls.

Got nothing in return.

At what point did OP do anything hateful? Not responding immediately isn't hateful. Nor is 'Hey, could you use AoE if we're doing a full clear with large pulls'.

This is why I'm asking you if you believe what you're saying. Because what you're saying is just making random things up to attempt to be 'neutral' and putting a ridiculous onus on players to respond to any degree of toxicity with, not just politeness, but immediate politeness or be accused of being equally toxic/equally at fault.