Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[The_Leon]

I'm going to be that guy and say...

Tank does not equal "leader"
Tank almost sets the pace

Healer does equal "leader"
Healer trumps tank in pace (USUALLY)

And if TWO people want xp it is a dick move
to ignore that, since more leveled people
will help with a stronger end game community


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Edited a typo

[Laesha]

snip

First, don't try and bait me with a loaded question. Your suggestion is enthymemic and sensationalized.

Nothing about what i said suggests that when i tank i don't take a careful look at: party composition, gear levels, each member's level in relation to the dungeon, the potential that someone is still relatively new (if not first run, then perhaps second or third [i can sometimes glean this based on pink/green dungeon equipment]), or any number of other factors when i decide how to proceed through the dungeon. 9/10 my decision represents a happy medium where everyone is mostly satisfied and i'm walking out w/ 2-3 coms (closing in on about 2500 now). I do my absolute best to ensure that the run is smooth and mutual goals are accomplished at a reasonable pace (reasonable depending entirely on the factors i previously mentioned :P).

What i won't do is sacrifice my interests, no, not even for 3 other group members. When compromise happens to deliver some of what everyone wants, everyone gets to be dissatisfied to the same degree. If they want to kick me and wait for another tank they are more than welcome to but i won't be putting up with any crap.

as i said, when i dps, i defer to the tank's decision making skills (even if they are lacking or only pursuing their own interests), and when i tank I expect the same level of deference.

[StouterTaru]

snip

Again, you are saying that the dps is acting entitled by acting as the tie breaker, and now adding that SE declared that the tank is entitled to be the tie breaker. You continue to miss the irony.

[Sapphic]

When you're a tank you're the leader of the group and the dungeon. When you're a leader, you're not there to dictate but to serve the group's needs.

Everyone there is to "serve the groups needs" whether it's the healer keeping people alive, or the DPS doing enough damage to clear stuff without putting too much pressure on the healers (limited mana yo). Or to beat DPS checks. Which is why that when certain players "play how they want" and don't play with a party mindset or fail to meet those minimal performance checks things go down the toilet and nerves get frayed.

[Adire]

Again, you are saying that the dps is acting entitled by acting as the tie breaker, and now adding that SE declared that the tank is entitled to be the tie breaker. You continue to miss the irony.

No irony missed, sorry! Do you honestly think a dps running ahead and pulling is just as okay as a tank doing it?

Not rude, or off in any way?

And no, I didn't say SE declared that. I said it was an implied right. This concept should have been learned in school, so I'll assume you know it's meaning?

[Eidolon]

I'm going to be that guy and say...

Tank does not equal "leader"
Tank almost sets the pace
Healer does equal "leader"
Healer trumps tank in pace (USUALLY)

Let's get over this ego-baiting and just get to the point:

The leader is not the "Healer" or the "Tank", it is the person behind it. If you are not a leader, it does not matter if you are a tank or a healer, you will not lead unless that is your personality type. Admittadly, I notice more people who are leaders tend to gravitate towards tanks - because of the nature of the position. But that is my own personal bias/view.

Healers do not set the tempo, nor do the tanks. A good tank listens to what their healers is comfortable with. A good healer will have faith in the tank and work to keep them up while they rotate their cooldowns. One can not fundamentally function without the other in any form of semi-challenging content.

Now, as for the OP? They did it completely wrong. They should not completely ignore people and attempt to pull only the mobs they want without so much as a considerate word. However, the words given to them were confrontational to begin with. "No skipping anything" is just plain rude, and very few people will respond to a direct disrespectful order. Answering back politely would've been the ideal - "I'm sorry, I don't mind killing mobs on the way, but I don't want to clear side rooms. Is that alright?" If they disagree... well, shit's bound to hit the fan at some point, I'm sure.

But if a DPS/Healer ever pulls, they can feel free to tank it. You don't really need Heals in the first part of DD if you use the crystals. Bloodbath/Self-sustaining stoneskins will more than keep you alive if you fight within the light of the crystals. That is where my limits begin to be hit - your DPS/Healer should -NEVER- pull. Ever. It is only a tactic of spite and grief when they do so, and I will not, under any circumstance, tank a mob that is pulled by a DPS. Even if it leads to a wipe.

Kick them next time and move on. And if they cancel your vote, then you can cancel theirs just as well. Your friend leaving only hurt you and your friend and gave them exactly their way.

[Dalmacus]

On JP servers we usually make the tanks default leader. The same is applied to the 24 man raids, only the leader (Tanks) will type on alliance chat the rest of the party member will type on party chat. Nobody will pull or start attacking without the tank doing it first. But i guess this could be culture differences.

[Adire]

snip

To be more specific about that, I was planning to go back and get the side rooms if he had changed his attitude. We were working on the non-sealed-room mobs in the first part of the dungeon anyways, I prefer to clear them out before standing on the circle door opening thing to get the other mobs. Can't remember for sure if there is one of those in the first part of the dungeon, but I was doing my routine first pull nonetheless.

We offered compromise as I said during this trash fight, by asking him to aoe large packs (don't think that's an unreasonable request personally), and he responded aggressively with "i only have one aoe, thank you and goodbye" and refusing to do so.

Me and my friend would have taken more time than we would have liked there by going to the side rooms, but I was willing to. However, demanding without even a "please" that we take a considerable amount of longer time due to that AND no aoe going out was the breaking point for me.

Unfortunately, as I've said in the past, it takes a lot for me to initiate a kick on someone. My friend was gone by the time I was at that point, so I wouldn't have had the votes. Being nice is detrimental to myself sometimes :/

snip

This is how things should work imo

I don't think the typing thing is too big of a deal, but military communications and such even in the US work similar, so it has a good purpose. Clear communication and leadership. And tanks should ALWAYS be the ones to initiate pulls, agreed 100% there.

I wish I knew Japanese and didn't have terrible internet, I feel like I belong on a JP server lately.

[KaedrianLiang]

/op.

The way i see it,

The norm, is to clear the dungeon asap, time is money. Dungeons, especially below 49 take longer than they should AND theres a timer, yeah you get plenty of time, but you never know. For DPS, a combination of FATES and Levequests is the fastest method of leveling. The earliest 50 nin's often did so without ever stepping into a dungeon.

if someone would like extra exp, just ask. Theres an extremely high probability the tank will meet your request.

If someone wants extra chests (usually full of potions anyways), sure why not, i know you want gear but its going to be irrelevant before your next repair bill. In the PITA 41-49 dungeons those extra chests are mostly broken vintage gear, some of which is crafting gear, which tend to sell for under 1k on Hyperion server.

If someone wants to make demands, they can que 4/4 8/8 24/24 as a premade group.

[StouterTaru]

No irony missed, sorry! Do you honestly think a dps running ahead and pulling is just as okay as a tank doing it?

Not rude, or off in any way?

And no, I didn't say SE declared that. I said it was an implied right. This concept should have been learned in school, so I'll assume you know it's meaning?

So SE implied that tanks are entitled, therefore dps should not act like they are? You clearly are missing the irony.