Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Lexia]

Please re-read my post..I'll sum it up for you though:

One dps needed experience. His healer friend was supporting him, though she did not need experience.

Me and my friend did not need experience.

So I am entitled for choosing to not kill optional mobs, when it's my role to make that choice in the first place? Okay then....

Perhaps I am wrong for choosing to make my tank vote be the tiebreaker. Guess my friend and I are not equal to the other guy and his friend in value.

Well you are calling them entitled and saying their rights don't trump others but the same time sounding even more entitled then them cause you are the tank (bus driver of the dungeon)

[SummerSkye]

Yes, it is. And until the duty finder becomes flooded with tanks and dps are scarce, you just have to deal with it. I deal with it, so you can too.

So let me get this straight (because I queue as all three roles). When you queue up as a tank, and get into a duty finder group...you honestly don't give two shits about the other three people there with you? You just take off and do what you want to do in that dungeon regardless of whatever reason the other three may have for being there?

[Teslo]

No, the whole "x can decide" needs to go. No one should be dictating how the party goes. Everyone should have a say on how the dungeons should go. Not the tank or the healer or the dps but everyone.

And for that, if you can't reach middle ground, leave the party and re que. You're a tank you should get back in in an instant, that would teach the dps. Instead you played the victim card and cried in the forums and the "entitled" dps. Seriously, how do you think the community here would react? Especially with a title like that.

Leaving will give you a 30 minute lockout and the party isn't going to boot you unless you act like an even bigger child by refusing to do anything at all, or being purposely insulting. I agree with the OP. I feel he handled the situation correctly and was not acting entitled when he did so. No, the tank is not the end-all decision maker. But in this case where the rest of the group can't make up their minds, the tank is the tiebreaker. Someone has to be. If the tank doesn't have a preference, pretend you didn't cast your vote, then there won't be a tie!

When I'm DPSing, I go with what the tank wants to do. If I don't like what they're doing, I bring it to their attention. If they don't stop, there's really nothing I can do about it. When I'm the tank, I take everyone's preferences into consideration and try to please the most people I can (2 out of 3 ain't bad). So no. It's not all up to the tank. But the tank is definitely the de-facto leader in the case of deadlocks.

[SummerSkye]

When I'm the tank, I take everyone's preferences into consideration and try to please the most people I can (2 out of 3 ain't bad). So no. It's not all up to the tank.

This is all we need to hear and see more of. Not "You have to wait 40 minutes for a queue so you are irrelevant" like that dumb ass said earlier.

[Adire]

snip

But see, SE designed tanks to do pulls. They can take the most damage, they build the most aggro. Everyone had a say in this dungeon, and both sides proceeded to do as they wanted.

Tanks being built in a way that makes them far best suited to initiate pulls strongly points to them being intended by SE to have the right to decide in the event of a deadlock.

Does this right have enough sway to justify a tank outweighing the majority, No.

But it shouldn't be hard to say, if you've got 3 people who will end up on the ground if they try to pull or at best end up causing chaos, vs one person who will not, then that one person should get to break the tie. SE designed it this way for a reason.

It's not only a matter of common sense, but also one of design choice. And again, someone had to make the choice. We had a tie. Who was better built through functionality to make that choice than me? No one, for a reason.

Are you still seriously missing the irony of calling the dps entitled?

They are entitled when I'm doing the job as intended by SE and they are attempting to force me not to via griefing, despite there being a tie.

When they demand something of me, I offer compromise, and then they refuse it and demand again. Yet I am entitled?

Me, as the person intended to do pulls by SE, choosing to do pulls as I want in the event of a tie, rather than give the other side what they want does not make me entitled, especially after being demanded and told pretty much "you are our slave" unless you consider the role itself entitled.

If there is any "entitlement" here on my part, it's one given by SE.

I mean sure, I could have gone along with the other side.

What would that mean though?

It would mean I gave up all of my rights.

The only alternative to that would be to just not progress anymore in the dungeon due to the tie, which is what happened.

Someone had to make the call. SE designed my role as the one best suited to make the call. And apparently, I'm entitled for being the one to make the call.

Again, tanks were designed as the best suited to be the tiebreaker in this situation for a reason...


Someone had to be given the completely neutral, unbiased "right" to be the tiebreaker. SE knew there would be uncompromising parties in dungeons, and simply how tanks are made is their solution.

I'm saying my "right" in this situation comes my sheer role function vs the role function of a dps, not saying my personal rights are superior to the rights of dps. The dps who demanded I be their slave on the other hand...

I've said that I go along with the flow when I'm a dps. I have the same views, even on the other side of the fence.

[Teslo]

This is all we need to hear and see more of. Not "You have to wait 40 minutes for a queue so you are irrelevant" like that dumb ass said earlier.

It would be ideal if more people were like that, yeah... But that's not reality. :P Hell, I've had my bitch fits. I'm not immune. But usually it's at the tail end of something like a "Dungeon Atma" marathon where I just want to be done with the stupid thing already, have run the same instance 10 times already, and don't care that you want to kill seven extra mobs in this place. :P Normally I'm pretty chill, though.

[Sapphic]

As a tank it is your job to deal with any given situation, including obnoxious players,

No-one should have to deal with obnoxious players, If I run a DF as tank and their are obnoxious players, they get kicked, or, I leave and they can obnoxiously tank themselves. Also you dont demand another player does something they may not want to do, you ask them like a human being, politely, They are not there as your personal slave.

But if they are doing something that is detrimental to the whole parties fun/progression. votekick.

Yes, people can play as they like, but so can others and if how they want to play is not with them, they are entitled to remove them from the party, as they are playing as they like, playing without that person.

[CUTS3R]

What is all this "Tank decides, rest follow" nonsense ?
If anything, roles "leading" the way are Tanks and Healers on an equal basis. When a Tank feels like doing mass pulls because he wants a fast clear, if the healer can't or don't want to do it that way, it'll likely be wipe. They both need to agree to speedrun beforehand.

I agree DPS have to shut up and deal with whatever pace has been set, though.


PS:Before you jump on me i play all roles regularly and apply what i just said to myself.

[KarmaCha]

It never ceases to amaze me how angry people get on these forums when they're told they don't get to decide how their experience is going to go every single time they run something. If you're a dps and you're pulling extra mobs to the tank, you're in the wrong. Period. If you are facing a group of 10 mobs and you aren't using AOE, you're hijacking people's time.

[Korbash]

When you're a tank you're the leader of the group and the dungeon. When you're a leader, you're not there to dictate but to serve the group's needs. Seems to me it's easy to check what levels the others are when you do any dungeon below LV 50, by inspecting them, and to see if they need XP or not. I was doing my low level dungeon duty roulette once on my LV 50 SMN, and the tank checked our gears and saw we were all LV 50 so we did the dungeon as fast as possible. I've seen too many tanks quitting for no reasons, being dramaking/queen, being such bad tank the healer quit, is not caring about what the group needs (XP) and avoid every mob possible during a dungeon. I always give recommendation to good tanks out there that are calm and patient, clear full dungeons, gives tips for fights, ask healer how they're doing, etc. And strangely, meeting bad tanks and good tanks have given me the desire to have a tank job (possibly a dark knight), a tank that is a good one that actually cares about what the group needs and to not act like a dictator.