Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[GenJoe]

when I queue as a tank, even if I need to get out of their quickly, I am still kind enough to pull everything because it's not all about me.

Really, even for a request (more like demand) like "No skipping anything."

[Ashkendor]

There are FOUR players in your party, not two and then two more.

Maybe you should tell that to the BRD that threatened to facepull and his WHM friend that threatened to not heal.

here you are a person probably level synced...making the people trying to level get out the dungeon quicker instead of getting the experience they joined for in the first place.

If you read through the post, the OP would have been perfectly willing to pull additional mobs if asked nicely.

Honestly, I feel like this is a case of two sets of two people that just shouldn't have run a dungeon together at all since nobody was willing to compromise in any way. The tone was rude from the onset which, wrong or no, prompted a rude response from the OP and it snowballed from there. Not everyone is gonna get along. When I run into that, I do everything I can to get through the dungeon or I eat the 30 minute penalty. Either way, when it's all said and done I just dust myself off and steel myself for the queue again, hoping that I never see those people again.

[MirielleLavandre]

I play all roles, but currently main WHM. As PLD, I detested when others pulled, because I believe tanks do often lead the party, and pulling is part of that. However, I do not believe tanks are the ones who set that pace -- that is the healer. Whenever I tank, I know for certain that if I go above the healer's capacity to heal, we will wipe and it will be my fault. Therefore, while I lead by pulling, the healer sets the actual pace of how quickly and how much I can pull. I think people are confused when they say tanks set the pace -- and as many have said, even if the tank and healer duo think speed runs are okay, if the dps isn't up to it, that will be a wipe as well -- teamwork, is what is needed more // and less confrontational attitudes (thank goodness I never pug dungeons at all...).

[kehn]

lol i main dps... and i'd never tell a tank what to do in a dungeon. and when i run the dungeons as tank i definitely run the dungeon how i want to. I remember when i was trying to finish my pld and people were trying to speed run dungeons for relic drop. AV i think it was and dps were killing the egg thingies and give a ton of exp, i asked them nicely not too... they kept doing it. and i left.... see what's faster.. do it my way or wait for another tank.

[Callinon]

Honestly if I'd just entered a dungeon and gotten a line like that, I think I'd just do a {I don't speak any English.} and just roll the rest of the dungeon like the chat log does not exist.

A defensive response, while understandable, isn't ever going to help with someone like that.

[Rendecrow]

While I understand your frustration with DPS, it is not really a fair complaint as plenty of tanks and healers have issues too.

DPS: Biggest issues they have is that they tend to sometimes be impatient and fail more often at raid/dungeon awareness than tanks and healers do.

Healers: Biggest issues is that because they are healing they tend to be overly critical of small mistakes. Also a fair amount of healers take it upon themselves to criticize dps performance when their own healing performance is not great either.

Tanks: Biggest issue is that they feel like the boss. While this makes sense since it is the tanks who pull and tend to lead the group, some tanks don't know how to communicate well and then complain when people are "not listening".

To the op:

The dungeon is not just about *you* but also about everyone else. Just because you play the tanking role does not mean that you get to determine everything. Had you communicated with the dps better and explained nicely why you didn't want to run the optional content, maybe you could have avoided all the drama. Instead it seems you probably did what I described as the general problem that tanks have.

[XgungraveX]

i like to talk to everyone in the group to see how where going to tackle this dungeon...what i don't like is toxic players right off bat in the dungeon as a tank what do you think im going to do after being demanded after spewing bs? can u guess what im going do after? im mostly quiet when im tanking and 90% of time i do what the group wants, like really is so hard to treat a fellow player with some common decently and respect and not belittle the tank from the start?

[Rendecrow]

pss: a lot of people spiting on tank here, must have little to no knowledge of what it means to be tank and maybe they need to try to be tank for more than 10-20 dungeon.... you will fast understand the point to leave the lead to the tank. it can be painfull to be strip of this as tank... and make the experience the most horrible.

I tanked for a few years in WoW on progressive content and have done the same with healing and dps. I know what I am talking about when I say:

While I understand your frustration with DPS, it is not really a fair complaint as plenty of tanks and healers have issues too.

DPS: Biggest issues they have is that they tend to sometimes be impatient and fail more often at raid/dungeon awareness than tanks and healers do.

Healers: Biggest issues is that because they are healing they tend to be overly critical of small mistakes. Also a fair amount of healers take it upon themselves to criticize dps performance when their own healing performance is not great either.

Tanks: Biggest issue is that they feel like the boss. While this makes sense since it is the tanks who pull and tend to lead the group, some tanks don't know how to communicate well and then complain when people are "not listening".

To the op:

The dungeon is not just about *you* but also about everyone else. Just because you play the tanking role does not mean that you get to determine everything. Had you communicated with the dps better and explained nicely why you didn't want to run the optional content, maybe you could have avoided all the drama. Instead it seems you probably did what I described as the general problem that tanks have.

Don't just assume that because Im saying that some tanks need to relax a bit, that I don't now what I am talking about.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

Uh... is it me or people are cherry picking the OP's post to argue against it just for the sake of arguing? I also feel like some people are holding a grudge against tanks. Adire, you did what you could. You didn't fight the DPS when he said "OMG NOT SKIPPING SH*T LMAO". You pulled a lot of stuff. You didn't let him die, since based on your post, even if he pulled extra monsters, you tanked them (You did your job). You asked them to AoE, the request was rejected. Heck, the OP wasn't even reasonable with his thread, I don't know why people were so hostile with their responses... there're ways to give an opinion. He had an entitled DPS in his group. Clearly, that attitude is not acceptable even if you play either healer or tank as well. I would re-name the thread to "entitled players, stop being entitled".

However, I don't feel the OP was being entitled. He was not forcing the DPS to run the way he wanted. He even said "If he asked nicely, he was going to do it". And I agree completely with that. Why would you have to ACCEPT that kind of attitude? no one should. What? because it's your job? Flash news, it's a videogame, not a paid job where you have to accept when people yell at you. Now, it's true that tanks are the "leaders", even if you like it or not. They DO control the pace of the fight. They have all the tools for that. They know how many monsters he/she can tank. They administrate their cds/MP/TP, not you. They know when it's enough. For example, if they want to pull 7 monsters, it's because they know how to control that amount of monsters. If you pull more, there's a risk that he either run out of cds or either MP/TP, finding himself/herself not being able to establish hate on these.

[silentwindfr]

seriously, people simply arguing about: tank must do what the other want! pull what they want! how they want! and stuff like this is craps.... i will be blunt a good tank will know what he can or cannot do. the tank role ask for more than what other role ask.

as tank you must:
- understand the limit of your group, for this you must have a good understanding of the strong side and weakness of each class.
it recquire to immediatly understand how well the group is equiped, if the group know well them class, if they know the dungeon,.... if they are a bit lacking in terms of equipement you will need to watch what you pull and how you do it. if they don't know, take time to explain the boss or put symbol for indicate the order the monster must be killed. an important point that a looooot of tank ignore and simply don't give a.... it's about the composition of the group, if you have a melee in the group, know how turn the monster and how place them for make them jobs easier.

- you must pay attention of what do the group, it means, how the healer use him mana, how the dps use them skill for decide the pace of the pulling.
if the healer don't pay attention to him mana you must be carefull, if the dps are using aoe on group of 2 monster, you either talk with them or pull more.... simply because it's stupid to let them waste ressource and do crappy dps.

- you must know your own role and limit. it means know what it means to be tank... what you can or cannot endure, since the role of a tank is not simply pull and keep the hate, but more survive while holding the aggro. it recquire too, to know the dungeon, the monster with them gimmick, what must be avoid, where you have patrol, where use your CD, your own cycle.

all of that for said, tank have a hell of jobs on them hand, people say that they mustn't be the leader....fine, you simply want to turn the tank into a pet that are there for keep the aggro of the monster, it's kinda rude. take the role of leader from the tank and they are not different than titan-egi.

finally, if you want to decide what will be killed in the dungeon ask, but it don't means the tank will submit and do what you want too... because it's him right to refuse. oh by the way, when you do a df, a clean sweep is not mandatory, when you df, the goal is to do the dungeon, not kill everything inside.

ps: if you get with bad tank, most of the time, is maybe because the good tank are tired to be treated like a pet, when the good tank take a lot of pride into mastering the class and know everything they need to know. if the tank class are the less represented is not without reason... not everyone is means to be tank. keep that in mind.

pss: a lot of people spiting on tank here, must have little to no knowledge of what it means to be tank and maybe they need to try to be tank for more than 10-20 dungeon.... you will fast understand the point to leave the lead to the tank. it can be painfull to be strip of this as tank... and make the experience the most horrible.