Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Eidolon]

I'm going to be that guy and say...

Tank does not equal "leader"
Tank almost sets the pace
Healer does equal "leader"
Healer trumps tank in pace (USUALLY)

Let's get over this ego-baiting and just get to the point:

The leader is not the "Healer" or the "Tank", it is the person behind it. If you are not a leader, it does not matter if you are a tank or a healer, you will not lead unless that is your personality type. Admittadly, I notice more people who are leaders tend to gravitate towards tanks - because of the nature of the position. But that is my own personal bias/view.

Healers do not set the tempo, nor do the tanks. A good tank listens to what their healers is comfortable with. A good healer will have faith in the tank and work to keep them up while they rotate their cooldowns. One can not fundamentally function without the other in any form of semi-challenging content.

Now, as for the OP? They did it completely wrong. They should not completely ignore people and attempt to pull only the mobs they want without so much as a considerate word. However, the words given to them were confrontational to begin with. "No skipping anything" is just plain rude, and very few people will respond to a direct disrespectful order. Answering back politely would've been the ideal - "I'm sorry, I don't mind killing mobs on the way, but I don't want to clear side rooms. Is that alright?" If they disagree... well, shit's bound to hit the fan at some point, I'm sure.

But if a DPS/Healer ever pulls, they can feel free to tank it. You don't really need Heals in the first part of DD if you use the crystals. Bloodbath/Self-sustaining stoneskins will more than keep you alive if you fight within the light of the crystals. That is where my limits begin to be hit - your DPS/Healer should -NEVER- pull. Ever. It is only a tactic of spite and grief when they do so, and I will not, under any circumstance, tank a mob that is pulled by a DPS. Even if it leads to a wipe.

Kick them next time and move on. And if they cancel your vote, then you can cancel theirs just as well. Your friend leaving only hurt you and your friend and gave them exactly their way.

[Dalmacus]

On JP servers we usually make the tanks default leader. The same is applied to the 24 man raids, only the leader (Tanks) will type on alliance chat the rest of the party member will type on party chat. Nobody will pull or start attacking without the tank doing it first. But i guess this could be culture differences.

[Adire]

snip

To be more specific about that, I was planning to go back and get the side rooms if he had changed his attitude. We were working on the non-sealed-room mobs in the first part of the dungeon anyways, I prefer to clear them out before standing on the circle door opening thing to get the other mobs. Can't remember for sure if there is one of those in the first part of the dungeon, but I was doing my routine first pull nonetheless.

We offered compromise as I said during this trash fight, by asking him to aoe large packs (don't think that's an unreasonable request personally), and he responded aggressively with "i only have one aoe, thank you and goodbye" and refusing to do so.

Me and my friend would have taken more time than we would have liked there by going to the side rooms, but I was willing to. However, demanding without even a "please" that we take a considerable amount of longer time due to that AND no aoe going out was the breaking point for me.

Unfortunately, as I've said in the past, it takes a lot for me to initiate a kick on someone. My friend was gone by the time I was at that point, so I wouldn't have had the votes. Being nice is detrimental to myself sometimes :/

snip

This is how things should work imo

I don't think the typing thing is too big of a deal, but military communications and such even in the US work similar, so it has a good purpose. Clear communication and leadership. And tanks should ALWAYS be the ones to initiate pulls, agreed 100% there.

I wish I knew Japanese and didn't have terrible internet, I feel like I belong on a JP server lately.

[KaedrianLiang]

/op.

The way i see it,

The norm, is to clear the dungeon asap, time is money. Dungeons, especially below 49 take longer than they should AND theres a timer, yeah you get plenty of time, but you never know. For DPS, a combination of FATES and Levequests is the fastest method of leveling. The earliest 50 nin's often did so without ever stepping into a dungeon.

if someone would like extra exp, just ask. Theres an extremely high probability the tank will meet your request.

If someone wants extra chests (usually full of potions anyways), sure why not, i know you want gear but its going to be irrelevant before your next repair bill. In the PITA 41-49 dungeons those extra chests are mostly broken vintage gear, some of which is crafting gear, which tend to sell for under 1k on Hyperion server.

If someone wants to make demands, they can que 4/4 8/8 24/24 as a premade group.

[Korbash]

The norm, is to clear the dungeon asap, time is money. Dungeons, especially below 49 take longer than they should AND theres a timer, yeah you get plenty of time, but you never know. For DPS, a combination of FATES and Levequests is the fastest method of leveling. The earliest 50 nin's often did so without ever stepping into a dungeon.

if someone would like extra exp, just ask. Theres an extremely high probability the tank will meet your request.

Personally I prefer doing dungeons instead of FATES and Levequests to level up my jobs (DPS and healer), it may not be the fastest way but it's THE only way to learn how to play your job the right way in a group setting, which you never learn doing FATES and Levequests. So I don't see why as a DPS who wants to learn to play my jobs the right way in dungeons I should get punished with tanks who want to clear the dungeon asap and avoid most mobs and get us least XP possible.

[Asierid]

As a tank, you tank. Nothing more, Nothing less. You don't become the "leader", you don't become the new dictator of the world. You get to hold mobs and get punched in the face. The fact that you have heavy armor and can tank means nothing, you would be dead without the healers to keep you alive or the dps to actually kill something.

So while those people in the dungeon were being asshats, the whole other part of this thread is irrelevant because it just isn't now the "party" system works; it has never worked that way since online rpgs decided to use the trinity. Teamwork dictates the strategies to win. Decisions are to be made as a team. Does the team fail to meet these expectations? Leave it then. Just ends up being a waste of time anyway. You set the pace of these decisions, nothing more.

This whole thread is ridiculous.

[Adire]

So SE implied that tanks are entitled, therefore dps should not act like they are? You clearly are missing the irony.

Am I missing the irony, or are you missing the point?

Did SE not build tanks to be the best suited to pulling?

Did they not build tanks to go first into mobs?

I see them doing that all the time, when dps do it they get fussed at, laughed at if they die, or things get crazy for a bit.

SE implied for tanks to be the rightful tiebreakers by giving them the best ability to do so. Overall community approval of tanks pulling vs disapproval of DPS pulling reinforces that, as does the fact that tanks are best built to pull.

You can keep calling it ironic and ignoring these points, plus the fact that I've said I am the same way as a DPS (i.e. I leave it up to the tank to decide what to do), and the fact that I've said I do clears if people act like decent human beings or outnumber me if you want though, but it's becoming like a broken record now.

[StouterTaru]

Am I missing the irony, or are you missing the point?

Did SE not build tanks to be the best suited to pulling?

Did they not build tanks to go first into mobs?

I see them doing that all the time, when dps do it they get fussed at, laughed at if they die, or things get crazy for a bit.

SE implied for tanks to be the rightful tiebreakers by giving them the best ability to do so. Overall community approval of tanks pulling vs disapproval of DPS pulling reinforces that, as does the fact that tanks are best built to pull.

Yes, you are clearly missing the irony. You say this one dps acted entitled, while adding that SE implied that the tank is the entitled party member.

[Adire]

Yes, you are clearly missing the irony. You say this one dps acted entitled, while adding that SE implied that the tank is the entitled party member.

You're clearly missing the point, and not responding to my points.

SE gave me (tanks in general) the tools to do pulls the most effectively and to go first into mobs, and therefore the preference that we make the call in a tie. DPS and healers doing it ends badly. When he went ahead with the healer to try without me, they died horrible deaths.

And again, when treated like a human being or outnumbered, I give people what they want. When I'm a dps, I let the tank make the call. So I'm entitled eh?

I rest my case.

Please, do continue to twist my words though.

apologies i was thinking of another persons post below yours lol P ill fix it XD

No problem! It happens.

[Spawnie]

i dont think calling them entitled is fair.. if joined by DF then thier feelings on how a run should work should be taken into account do a vote if need to..

saying tanks have the right to determine how a run should work is just ._. what if its a healer wanting no mobs excluded?? can only imagine the rage tanks throw at healers if they decide not to heal them... and yeah ive seen some very rude tanks abusing healers for no reason at all so that scenario wouldnt surprise me at all

without healers tanks are just cannon fodder so calling dps entitled is laughable since some of the tanks commenting attitude screams entitled aswell