The Ninja Superthread

[Ephier]

Which is why like 90% of my records have been set without a tunneling program, right? Cause slight lag on a mudra = no DPS. Just consider getting good first, then get a really good gearset (mine is really shitty), and THEN if your numbers arent "high" you can blame it on lag. Seriously it's not as important as everyone's making it out to be. I understand the rhythm of mudras, I know how to play the class, and I think people are valuing it WAY too much - yes it affects your DPS, but then so does regular latency for every class. (I get a GCD ahead of my drg friend who plays with 150+ latency after 3:00, for example.. clearly I'm gaining over him after long periods of time, etc)

We got a World Record clear time on T11 the other night, and I wasnt using a tunneler, and we'd had pulls of both the drg and I over 650 with laggier mudras. A bit of mudra lag doesnt equal 0 DPS.

I never said anything about DPS not being high. My DPS is perfectly fine. Does not mean that the mudra lag is not annoying. Its like having a 600hp dual clutch automatic car that misses shifts. The car is still fast, but missing shifts will irk you.

[Odowla]

I never said anything about DPS not being high. My DPS is perfectly fine. Does not mean that the mudra lag is not annoying. Its like having a 600hp dual clutch automatic car that misses shifts. The car is still fast, but missing shifts will irk you.

I'm just saying making it out like laging a mudra isnt the worst thing, if you fail the mudra I could see it.

There's also no real solution to it unless they make it so you can go like dancin > jin > spinning edge > ten > gust slash > chi > ninjutsu or something would be the only viable solution imo. Client side control would just mean people would just mash 1 button and do 30 raitons in a row

[Ephier]

I'm just saying making it out like laging a mudra isnt the worst thing, if you fail the mudra I could see it.

There's also no real solution to it unless they make it so you can go like dancin > jin > spinning edge > ten > gust slash > chi > ninjutsu or something would be the only viable solution imo. Client side control would just mean people would just mash 1 button and do 30 raitons in a row

Making mudra client side would not enable one to do raiton 30 times, not even twice. While one button macros would be a thing most definitely you have to wait 20s before your next mudra and you still have to wait for the GCD to come back to do anything so it would not matter. If you are fine with a laggy mudra system, that is fine, but most NIN are not happy with the system.

[Odowla]

Making mudra client side would not enable one to do raiton 30 times, not even twice. While one button macros would be a thing most definitely you have to wait 20s before your next mudra and you still have to wait for the GCD to come back to do anything so it would not matter. If you are fine with a laggy mudra system, that is fine, but most NIN are not happy with the system.

Then don't be happy with it, but understand why it's in place. It would be SO easy to make a script that would just send raiton or w/e mudra you want, and it can't be capped on the server-side or you get a worse problem where the server just decides to tell you no and then you drop huton, gg your dps.

i feel like we're the only ones who think this

I just feel like acting like its the end-all to Ninja DPS and the whole reason Chloro Cradle does his rediculous numbers is completely and 100% on his lack of mudra delay instead of, i don't know, maybe being skilled and having a really good gearset is the wrong way to think of it. As someone who is in a quite high-level guild and who gets messages/tells all the time i do dedicate a lot of my to knowing the class and understand the deep-down reasoning for certain openers and skill usages that I'm pretty sure It can only come down to gear at this high level of thinking.

I've narrowed it down to the reason i don't get his numbers, optimized strats aside is basically just my gearset, and to a smaller extent, the fact my mudras do have a slight delay. I get 14 mudras in the 5 second window on a good day, he gets 15 mudras, that's barely noticeable. It's coming down to a shitty gearset at this point, though there's not much else I can do unless i feel like buying some crafted pieces and dropping millions on melds just for "dat parse". I'm not trying to say i'm the best or anything like that at all; I'm just saying that once you know your 1 2 3 4 5 6 rotation, your ninjutsu priority, and how do deal with mechanics optimally, it literally comes down to partly lag ( minimally) and largely your gearset. There's nothing else to the classes in this game when you talk about it at a high level like this.

[Ephier]

Then don't be happy with it, but understand why it's in place. It would be SO easy to make a script that would just send raiton or w/e mudra you want, and it can't be capped on the server-side or you get a worse problem where the server just decides to tell you no and then you drop huton, gg your dps.


I just feel like acting like its the end-all to Ninja DPS and the whole reason Chloro Cradle does his rediculous numbers is completely and 100% on his lack of mudra delay instead of, i don't know, maybe being skilled and having a really good gearset is the wrong way to think of it. As someone who is in a quite high-level guild and who gets messages/tells all the time i do dedicate a lot of my to knowing the class and understand the deep-down reasoning for certain openers and skill usages that I'm pretty sure It can only come down to gear at this high level of thinking.

I've narrowed it down to the reason i don't get his numbers, optimized strats aside is basically just my gearset, and to a smaller extent, the fact my mudras do have a slight delay. I get 14 mudras in the 5 second window on a good day, he gets 15 mudras, that's barely noticeable. It's coming down to a shitty gearset at this point, though there's not much else I can do unless i feel like buying some crafted pieces and dropping millions on melds just for "dat parse". I'm not trying to say i'm the best or anything like that at all; I'm just saying that once you know your 1 2 3 4 5 6 rotation, your ninjutsu priority, and how do deal with mechanics optimally, it literally comes down to partly lag ( minimally) and largely your gearset. There's nothing else to the classes in this game when you talk about it at a high level like this.

When a mudra is used it would still go on cooldown. Just because you can request the server to do something 100 times does not mean it will do it 100 times. There is still animation delays and cooldowns, in this instance 20 seconds.

[Odowla]

When a mudra is used it would still go on cooldown. Just because you can request the server to do something 100 times does not mean it will do it 100 times. There is still animation delays and cooldowns, in this instance 20 seconds.

No, if you limit it like that there's a chance the server really can just tell you no you've already done that. That's the problem with a "it just goes on cooldown". Kassatsu wouldn't work either.

@ Xero... that's a lot of mudra delay, enough that you'd do sub-optimal damage on every class. I feel like you're exagerating, or could heavily benefit from the use of a vpn or something for everything else (not even talking about mudras).

It's not really a large portion >_> it seems liek you just have really high latency in general, like, rediculously high latency, and it would affect more than just ninja.

[Ephier]

No, if you limit it like that there's a chance the server really can just tell you no you've already done that. That's the problem with a "it just goes on cooldown". Kassatsu wouldn't work either.

@ Xero... that's a lot of mudra delay, enough that you'd do sub-optimal damage on every class. I feel like you're exagerating, or could heavily benefit from the use of a vpn or something for everything else (not even talking about mudras).

It's not really a large portion >_> it seems liek you just have really high latency in general, like, rediculously high latency, and it would affect more than just ninja.

Not really, the mudra skill would still have to request server side activation. I think you are missing the point of what is wanted. we want jin, ten and chi client side, with the activation skill server side. Please stop making assumptions, it is a large portion of NINs who have this issue and I have 100ms on average.

[Judge_Xero]

@ Xero... that's a lot of mudra delay, enough that you'd do sub-optimal damage on every class. I feel like you're exagerating, or could heavily benefit from the use of a vpn or something for everything else (not even talking about mudras).

It's not really a large portion >_> it seems liek you just have really high latency in general, like, rediculously high latency, and it would affect more than just ninja.

It's funny because I only have around 25ms latency. I live 4 hours from the NA Server. TBH I'm not sure what it is that makes my Mudras so bad. Without a VPN each Mudra command is a full GCD. I've tried both PingZapper and WTF Fast which makes it at least bearable, but still not ideal, especially in Coils.

I wish I was exaggerating. The only issue I have on any other class, is that a CD may not go off and I will have to click it again (Fester, RS, B4B etc). For NIN, that means Rabbit + lost GCD. My damage on other classes is great, NIN is the only class that screws you due to this.

Which is too bad since it's otherwise a very fun job to play. Many people experience the same issue to some degree, and thus the reason for requesting the change to the way Mudras work.

Wow. Your Raiton is faster than my Fuma even when I use WTFfast.

This was not me exaggerating either. I know how long 0.5s is, and that is not how Mudras work for a lot of people, and no... I'm not trying to use my Mudras near the end of a GCD and then complaining that they take too long. I'm pretty proficient at CD weaving, but I could see that being an issue for some people, due to the reaction time of going from a GCD skill to Mudras.

-------------------------------------------------------------

One thing that is very interesting is that if I use a VPN to connect to a JP site - my Mudras are incredibly fast, I just have to deal with 500ms Ping.

3.0 can't come soon enough.