Specialist System in 3.0

[Sibyll]

Well Scarebear beat me to it on the trust issue. (Wish I could like it more lol )
This specialist system from the details we do have will not be a good thing for omni crafter because this system promotes lock outs and pigeonholing people to specific crafts. I don't know about you but I thought the main selling point of this game was one character can do ALL?

Even in that interview he contradicted himself by saying crafting was too "hardcore" but introduce a new system that promotes even more "hardcore" crafting. Now to craft anything at anytime you have to have alts because now one character can NOT do all.

At what point do they explicitly say you can't do everything? The lock out could be 3 Eorzean days for all we know. I too am skeptical of the specialist system after the housing debacle, but with how little we actually know people are just jumping to some idiotic conclusions for the sake of rabble rousing.

Honestly, if whatever change they do makes crafted combat gear meaningful (besides the jewelry) I'd be all for it. At the current moment weapons are overpriced glamours, ARM/LTW/WVR gear is irrelevant after the first few weeks and/or incredibly niche and the accessories are the only pieces worth holding on to. Alchemist hasn't gotten a meaningful potion since 2* while Culinarian continues to be useful at all levels of play.

And yet you say this:

The current system is working fine.

No it leaves a lot to be desired. Forcing people to level all their crafters to 50 is part of the reason why most steer clear of it. If they are trying to shift from leveling 8 classes to 50 toward leveling 2-3 to 50 then I think you'd end up with more people with 1 or 2 specialists on their character which would mean more transactions on that casual level.

Also, people are commenting on "hardcore" crfafters that level a bunch of alts to circumvent this. You are right, it wouldn't affect them. Little will in fact, outside of limiting the number of high-end crafts that could be done using some kind of a token system obtained through dailies. It'd prevent them from satisfying the market by themselves and giving other specialists a chance. Honestly they shouldn't be balancing their game around what people with too much time on their hands will do. If that were the case then FCoB wouldn't have been cleared in the first week.

[Orangard]

Mod asked us to stop over reacting and wait for more info. SE also revealed that you can switch specializations over time, and you can have more than one. Multiple interviews have talked about the depth of the new crafting system and all the cool things they are adding. There are things added for people who only craft, as well as things for people who craft occasionally. 3.0 is going to rock for crafters.

Everyone needs to start getting hyped. 0 fears!

^^^^ What this guy said!

There is indeed a lot of chicken little going on in this thread.

Somehow people are believing that specialization will affect 100% of crafting, not just the top 5%. If I'm not mistaken, the specialization will introduce new crafts for that spec, that are only craftable while in that specialization. The rest of the crafts will remain 'open'. Some of those crafts will probably need to be used for say the FC airship and what not.

[Gillionaire]

Somehow people are believing that specialization will affect 100% of crafting, not just the top 5%. If I'm not mistaken, the specialization will introduce new crafts for that spec, that are only craftable while in that specialization. The rest of the crafts will remain 'open'. Some of those crafts will probably need to be used for say the FC airship and what not.

No, I don't believe that specialization will affect 100% of crafting. I agree with you on that.

BUT, the top 5% is what makes money to crafters, the top 5% is what's worth fighting over and that's enough to get us riled up.
That IS our end-game.

It's like if SE decided to implement something detrimental to the raid system and you argued "that's only for end-game raids, the regular dungeons will still stay the same"

[Sibyll]

It's like if SE decided to implement something detrimental to the raid system and you argued "that's only for end-game raids, the regular dungeons will still stay the same"

So what you are saying is that crafting should have weekly lock outs like raids and something akin to Tomestones for acquiring gear? I agree with you 100%. Please give crafting weekly lock outs on recipes!

[Gillionaire]

So what you are saying is that crafting should have weekly lock outs like raids and something akin to Tomestones for acquiring gear? I agree with you 100%. Please give crafting weekly lock outs on recipes!

No, what I am saying, is Orangard's argument regarding how specialization will likely only affect the top tier of recipes is moot when that's 90% of things we'll be crafting and selling.

It can just be 1 item. 1 SINGLE item that gets crafted. if it requires a specialization, there will be issues with it.

Imagine if all the artisan tools were only desynth'd from ONE single craft.
or if BC3s are, etc.

That only affects the end-game desynthing, sure.. But isn't that all that matters?


Can you imagine how hiked up the prices will get if certain items were only crafted/desynthed via a SINGLE method?
Just think back before 2.45 when you had to desynth artisan's specs to get mcDs.. They were over a million gil each! As soon as they released artisan tools and it allowed 3 desynthing classes to obtain them, to a varying degree of effectiveness, it dropped the prices.


Competition will create a healthy market. By forcing people to specialize, that reduces the competition.. Prices will only go up from that.

[Orangard]

No, I don't believe that specialization will affect 100% of crafting...

No, it would be more like if they introduced specialization to DoW/M that you could only change once a week. Sure you could have your uber Drg, but not in the same raid time frame as having an uber Sch. Content would still be doable with out the uberness.

To do what you've said, they would need to open up multiple raids, each that are only accessable to certain classes.

And no, the top 5% is not only what makes money for crafters.

The problem atm is the restrictions imposed upon specialization are not known to us yet(if any). It is entirely possible that specialization isn't much different that going from 1star to 4star in any crafting class. There could infact be no restriction on crafting specialized crafts after they have been learned. It may only grant a bonus to crafting while specialized (ie, hitting lucis level while only equiping supra).

[Orangard]

No, what I am saying, is Orangard's argument regarding how specialization will likely only affect the top tier of recipes is moot when that's 90% of things we'll be crafting and selling.

It can just be 1 item. 1 SINGLE item that gets crafted. if it requires a specialization, there will be issues with it.

Imagine if all the artisan tools were only desynth'd from ONE single craft.
or if BC3s are, etc. ...
.

Well now, my argument was in reply to what you said about it in the first place. It was the way you presented it that seemed as though you believed that specialization locked you out from all other classes crafting.
If they do the top tier stuff well, the top tier stuff will not be needed to desynth or anything else. It will simply be top tier equip.
Perhaps it will be more along the lines of not needing to reach max level with other DoH classes to do top tier crafts in the specialized DoH.

[Gillionaire]

snip

No, that's not what I meant. If I gave the impression that I'm worried about not being able to craft anything from other crafts, that's not my concern at all.

There are 3 main reasons specialization concerns me.

1. Omnicrafter
I just like being able to craft whatever I want whenever I want it and I would hate to lose that ability.

2. Market inflation
As it stands in Jenova, currently. Even in 4 star artisan/forager markets. There are only 4-5 people selling items there. But the competition is spread out and people can always choose to fill the gaps if for example, artisan's sandal only has 1 seller on it, another crafter can jump in and make it (provided he's a 4star CRP).
Let's assume that 4 star craft is what you would refer to as top tier gear. I think it's fair to say that.
Say that people were forced to specialize, that ALREADY cuts down the number of people in each market, it provides pockets of niche markets where there may only be 1 or 2 people selling such items and due to the time lockout of the proposed specialization system, it won't be as easy for somebody to just jump in and fill the gap. So the prices will likely stay very high.



3. Crafter vs. Crafter competition
Right now, if you want to attempt to dominate a market, you're basically forced to compete against the entire server for your share. Even under that kind of condition, there are certainly people who dominate the MB on some items (FC3, McD, Glamours come into mind)

If specialization was introduced, there's a high probability of some crafters to make alts in order to have access to ALL the specialization. Let's call this person Ubercrafter.

So now, it becomes ubercrafter vs. Carpenters of Jenova. Not profitable? he can move on.
Ubercrafter vs. Blacksmiths of Jenova.
etc. etc.
He now has 8 different chances to corner a market and not against the entire server, only a specific portion of them which would increase his chances of success.

Doesn't Gilgamesh already have Blue gartr on the MB?
Imagine that except now, one very dedicated person can have a small section of the MB.
It'll create pockets of monopoly over the MB and I can tell you that crafters like to work together, I've gotten offers of working together to keep prices in check on numerous occasions when I started undercutting the entire market aggressively and if such things happened, you can have a Blue Gartr type of monopoly with only 3-4 full time crafters, that's pretty scary to think about.

[Ranzan]

snip

First off the current system let you specialize if you CHOOSE to. It doesn\\'t twist your arm into doing so. Hell there are ppl that only did Ltw/Wvr/Gsm just fore spiritbonding purposes. So you could always specialize in a craft or two. Why limit the people that worked hard to get them all leveled to please some lazy people that didn\\'t or won\\'t put in the effort to do them all?

In the Reddit posted interview he said there will be a "delay" when you switch specializations. That tells me I can make everything or anything people ask me on the spot. I can only speak for myself but that not good for business. Do I tell this customer in front of me "Sorry I can\\'t make that right now but if you wait I can switch and make it for you then." 10 times out of 10 they are going to find someone else.

Also they could made crafting item more relevant with the current system. It may actually be better because the prices wouldn't be as high if (wait for it) any and everybody can make said items and not just a select few. Base on the info we have its a step back and more monopolies in markets on the horizon.

[Thrustie]

I don't know that this would have a negative impact on mid tier crafters like me (have 3 crafting Lucis, moderately wealthy, mostly only craft in 1 or 2 markets) and I believe there's many of us. Additionally, I think it may encourage lower end crafters who don't want to challenge the kingpins. Sure some of them will level alts to corner all markets but a lot of them will be dissuaded. This could make it easier for players like me and lower who aren't quite as hardcore to compete in the market. As long as the base items used to craft the specialization items are still craftable without being specialized, I don't think it goes against the spirit of the armoury system.