Thread: Specialist System in 3.0

Originally Posted by Gillionaire

Most people don't go 4 star on everything as it already is. If we introduce a higher barrier to the lucis equivalent in heavensward and perhaps also introduce class specific armor, then I think people will specialize to maximize efficiency on their own. Of course, eventually there will be master crafters that have it all, but that won't be for a while if the gate is set high enough

If people want to specialize, by all means. I know a few people doing exactly that with crafting. But there's no reason to force it upon us.

Also, I think most crafters are of the merchant mindset. We want to sell to the entire server, we want to be self sufficient, not resort to partnerships or work for the big man.

Completely agree Gillionaire.

It's fine if SE wants to make it so that getting the Level 60 "Top End" Recipes / Tools just takes a while / dedication, and that inherently will make it so there are fewer Omni Crafters (just time, hassle, etc.).

But please *don't* Lock Out Players from working their way to Max Level / Recipes on All Crafts in Heavensward.

I totally get the Specialist angle: It does create more "demand" and trade, but the downsides are there as well. If we had Specialization / Lockout:

1. On Low / Mid Population Servers, there might be very few Crafting Specialists for [X]. As a result, they would have a mini-monopoly, charging astronomical prices for their crafts (until some players are forced to level up Alts / switch their own Specialization to that [X] Craft).

2. Trying to *find* a Specialist Crafter at a certain hour might be difficult: Not everyone plays the game at the same hours. Let's say you log in (at a non-prime time hour) and need help / want to hire someone to craft XYZ for you. You /shout and put up PF, and... nothing.

You're stuck waiting for the MB, or trying to find someone on the weekends, etc.

3. If FF XIV slows down (subscriptions drop off), Specialization / Lockout might actually make some items no longer crafted / extremely hard to find / get someone to help you craft, unless someone steps up and puts in the insane hours to get that Specialization deficiency.


Yoshi P has made FF XIV all about *accessibility*. He doesn't design Raids / Instanced Dungeons to require ONLY a Monk, or ONLY a Scholar, for example. It's made so that All Jobs are viable.

So why should Crafting be different? It shouldn't.

Originally Posted by HrumHrum

Or stop crafting at all, or just stop playing.

Another slim minority. I'm sure SE is terrified of the lost subscriptions. Don't let the door hitcha!

Originally Posted by Kiara

I totally get the Specialist angle: It does create more "demand" and trade, but the downsides are there as well. If we had Specialization / Lockout:

Your arguments aren't bad - except for the fact that things like monopolies, finding crafters, etc., only become a concern if there's something the crafter can make that you absolutely have to have. There isn't. Crafters make glamours, furnishings, and side-grades to equipment that are already sub-par. Anyone that tries to pump up prices due to holding a monopoly will find that people simply won't buy. If you want your stuffed cabbage minion, but none are up for sale and you can't find a CUL specialist, well, the world keeps turning - it's not like you can collect every minion anyway, given all the preorder and event-only minions whose boat has sailed.

In FFXI, situations like you described could be a problem as, at various points in the game's history, certain crafted items WERE the best items, and people were willing to shell out bigtime for them. Crafting in this game has been painstakingly nerfed to ensure that nothing a crafter makes is essential, and I don't anticipate that policy ever changing.

I am neither for nor against specialization in crafting. If it happens, I'll shrug my shoulders and keep on keepin' on. I certianly don't see it as any kind of dreadful horror, though. I think folks are overreacting.

Originally Posted by Gillionaire

Because you can't have both.. It's one or the other.

If people want to specialize, by all means. I know a few people doing exactly that with crafting. But there's no reason to force it upon us.

Except with the current system there is no benefit to specializing in a single craft.

Also, have they stated if you will be limited to a single specialization or will it be comparable to desynth where you can get up to 3?

Originally Posted by Sibyll

Except with the current system there is no benefit to specializing in a single craft.

Also, have they stated if you will be limited to a single specialization or will it be comparable to desynth where you can get up to 3?

There is.. it's in the form of time constraints. Do you honestly sell crafted items from all 8 classes? I doubt it. I doubt anybody does.
At most, there are some very diversified people with 4 retainers and try to keep all 80 slots filled at all times, even most of those people choose a few specific classes to focus on.

Also, there are people who choose to specialize in a single class at 1 star or lower level. i.e. Spiritbonder with GSM or somebody who specializes in selling food 1 star and below.

The benefit to doing that is time saved and less start up costs, and also less competition since you have a strong focus on the MB.

it seems there will be specialization to gathering too. the contract concept. that you can only gather the region you have contract with. people who dont have this contract wont be able to gather those specific nodes.

so it will get more complex for me as i gather almost everything for my crafts

Wasn't FF XI like these on it's early days, before "specialization" got introduced on laters patch/expansion? lol

Originally Posted by BobbinT

Wasn't FF XI like these on it's early days, before "specialization" got introduced on laters patch/expansion? lol

I'm not sure, but I know limitations helps create an economy for a MMO. Doing this for FFXIV is all well and good but it won't matter if they never allow crafted gear to beat unique gear in stats and continue to make unique gear as easy to obtain as they do. Typically in a healthy game economy, there is a huge need for crafted gear that fills the gap to end game gear, and at times is better in slot than any other item. FFXIV is pretty far away from how FFXI did this, but it can still be done. It has been done to a small extent. But lets face it...the economy sucks for crafters. Items sell at a snail's pace unless it's consumables due to the game's design. I'm not sure there will ever be a point to crafting beyond food and level up gear. I question myself why I still bother. The playerbase stuck around for what it is the game currently. They will not like a major change whatsoever, so crafting will probably always be a waste of time. As long as people can just craft everything themselves, sales will be few and far between.

Specialization will boost sales no doubt about it, but as long as that "I'll just skip crafted stuff and wait it out for tome gear" factor is there...we're all wasting our time. Doesn't mean we'll stop doing it, but it is what it is.

If specialization is introduced, I don't think that the problem of folks leveling alts in order to continue to max out all crafts will be as widespread as people fear. For one thing, unlike in FFXI, you pretty much need all crafts to 50 to be an effective crafter in even a single craft. In FFXI, the only reason you needed multiple crafts leveled is for certain recipes which required a "subcraft", and in general a given craft would only have two, maybe three other crafts that made much of an appearance in its recipes. Though, to be fair, the effort to level ALL crafts to 50 in this game is only a drop in the bucket compared to the ludicrous grind it took to level even ONE craft to 100 in FFXI. Or even one craft to 50.

For another, due to trade restrictions between alts, crafters will need to find other ways to exchange goods between their characters. There are several options, and all of them are pretty ugly in one way or another:

- You could pay for multiple accounts to Friend each other, one for each craft you want to specialize in. That costs a lot of real life money.
- You could become the leader of a Free Company to use the common-area storage. This prevents you from joining other Free Companies.
- You could join a linkshell that specializes in swapping goods between players' alts. This depends on the goodwill of the folks in that Linkshell - and to be honest, the main value of being a do-everything crafter is so that you DON'T have to depend on other people to craft, so this is a step back to square one anyway.

Will these things happen if specialization is added? Sure. Will it grant unfair advantages to those who do? Probably. Will it be rampant? Not likely. Most crafters will pick a specialization and stick with it, and not futz around with alts or multiple accounts, or anything of that nature. The folks jumping through all these hoops will be rare and outside the norm.