[dev1008] About Jumping

[Rowyne]

Just thought I'd point out that 56 pages of people giving opinions, defending there own opinions, disregarding other opinions and listing the same crap over and over again is not going to get us anywhere. We will never come to an agreement on this subject, so what say we just leave this one up to the devs?

The thing is that this is an issue that many are passionate about, and our opinions may actually have a direct impact.

People will continue to be anxious about it until it makes its way into a player's poll and we definitively hear Yoshi-P's decision on how the dev team will proceed.

[Skeeter]

The thing is that this is an issue that many are passionate about, and our opinions may actually have a direct impact.

People will continue to be anxious about it until it makes its way into a player's poll and we definitively hear Yoshi-P's decision on how the dev team will proceed.

A players poll on this site would be incredibly bias toward FF purists.

[gifthorse]

First off, I must assume that people saying there were no jumping mechanics in FF before FFXIII never played FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, etc... all "Final Fantasy"-branded games in which you character automatically jumps over obstacles when the distance is jumpable. I therefore gather that this anti-jump ultraconservative understanding of FF games is either incomplete because they have not played these games I mentioned, or a misinterpretation of what makes a FF game a FF. In either case, it defeats the argument that jumping would kill the FF atmosphere.

In addition, I would like to add that the jump/no jump discussion is probably the most viewed and discussed topic because it's not simply the discussion between those who want jump and those who do not. It is iconic of the argument between a retrograde way of understanding games that has led FFXIV to the state in which it is right now, and an innovative way of understanding games that seeks to make FFXIV a modern MMO, with modern mechanics that allows for more freedom of play.

I do not refer only to freedom of gameplay, but also freedom from the FFXI-bred behavior that leads players to want to control what others do, as is examplified by the many topics in this forums: "I don't want jump because everyone else will be jumping around, even if I won't", "I don't want pvp in the game, even if I can choose not to participate", "I want everyone to adjust to a system that clearly isn't working, not even for the devs", "Hey devs, don't listen to the requests", etc...

This is so true.

People complain of jumping tampering with the integrity of the Final Fantasy franchise, but it probably pays to understand that Final Fantasy is more than just running everywhere and linear exploration. If all Final Fantasy games came down to was a lack of jump, then nobody would play them.

Every Final Fantasy game has sought to improve upon the one which came before it, or differentiate in some other way. In FFXI, drastic combat changes were needed to take it to the industry standard, on account of the fact that you can't have typical FF random encounters in an MMO. Not viably anyway. I do so fondly recall people dimissing FFXI as "not a real final fantasy", which makes it all the more amusing to hear people say the same thing for FFXIV when using FFXI as a typical model.

If FFXI could step forward and make the necessary changes, while still maintaing that "Final Fantasy atmosphere" you are all so obsessed with, I can't see that implementing jump in FFXIV can't do something similar by including jumping.

Unless you're blind, you'll realise that characters jump all the time in Final Fantasy games. Even as far back as FFVIII you had some jumping minigames, not to mention the fact that characters never stopped jumping in cutscenes, or so it felt like.

Lightning was always flipping around and doing shit in FFXIII. In the opening cutscene for FFXIV, we see players running around and dodging. In one of the R46 cutscenes, players are doing crazy backflips. I could go on and drive the point home, but the fact remains that Final Fantasy games are not exclusive to jumping and I still fail to see how that is a valid argument. I would say that, once upon a time, what made a Final Fantasy game was its ability to push the envelope, nowadays there's no chance of that happening when its playerbase is so rooted in what they think is tradition.

[gifthorse]

Anyway, I must repeat what an earlier poster said about jumping. If they include it in such a way that is a mere form of expression and not a tools or means to heighten exploration and combat, then it's pointless, and they might as well refrain altogether.

As a practical means of travel, I would prefer a 'climb' or 'clamber' action to get over small rocks and such.

[Rowyne]

A players poll on this site would be incredibly bias toward FF purists.

I don't mean on the forums, I mean another in the series of player's polls that's already been presented.

Though, I will agree, that part of the problem is that we also want to include and target many of the people who have stopped playing (after all, those that are still here have been through a lot and are committed to sticking it out). I'm not sure that all of them still follow the Lodestone and getting the word out to them to participate in the poll isn't easy. In fact, every time there's a poll, I have to badger my husband to go do it (he can't bring himself to log into the game with its current lack of content because it bores him to death).

Some people just don't care. They won't come back until they see results.

But I can say for myself, that while I am a FF fan, I am not a FF purist. And I'm not alone. So I have hope for the future.

[Fouluryu]

Actually, climbing instead of jumping sounds more smart than jumping. I'd rather climb the ledges unable to walk on then jump.

[Goldfighter]

Actually, climbing instead of jumping sounds more smart than jumping. I'd rather climb the ledges unable to walk on then jump.

So then when you get to that 1 ft little drop off that you can't get up/down from, you're gonna get on your hands and knees and climb up/down it?

Not sure how that's smarter.

[Kimahri]

So then when you get to that 1 ft little drop off that you can't get up/down from, you're gonna get on your hands and knees and climb up/down it?

Not sure how that's smarter.

Not sure where you think a "Jump" would correct that certain problem. That's just simply a fall. It requires no need to physically press a button to jump.

Now I'm here to set this record straight. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to implement jump AS A PASSIVE TRAIT ONLY! I do not see a situation where you would have to frequently press the "Jump Button" If there is a hill up ahead that you can climb/jump up onto, then it should do it automatically, not manually. If there is a steep drop off that requires you to jump/fall off from, it should also be done automatically and not manually.

This topic is starting to get rather boring and tasteless. I can see people are passionate about how jump is all in all part of the FF trend. However, even in the games such as FFT Advanced, jumping was merely used as a passive ability when moving from one place to the next. In certain games, such as FFX, when my favorite character used jump, you couldn't control the angle, height, or time in which you jumped.

This is how I feel on jump in a nutshell. Bring it into the realm of FFXIV, but do it as only a passive ability to movement mechanics in the game.

[Anathiel]

(First half put in another thread, should've added to this one lol ^^

I say F jumping, unless done in a ff:xiii style, or zelda. now, listen here...intead of adding jumping. what if they added a small climb feature? you ever see anybody jump in plate armor? even theoretically? not possible. You could however add a small climb feature, using a zelda type collision detection. I see a 2 inch drop? hop down. I see a 2 foot fence? I climb over. I don't have to ninja jump over those small obstacles.

Now, everyone against jumping (or climbing, whatever) they way the reason they don't want it is immersion in the RPG realm. Stay with me, I'm playing my own devil's advocate. Now, when you unlocked your mount in WoW, how often did you jump? I know I never did, I put myself on an auto path and that was it. You followed roads around and that was that. Now, lets say they do implement jumping, but they don't implement jumping on a chocobo. Whether it be the speed of the mount, or just the overall work of having to implement a jump on a mount. Would it really be that bad? No, it wouldn't. You could jump on your own character, but not a mount. I think a huge problem the dev team might be having with jumping is doing it on a chocobo...you'd have to add in momentum, weight, distance. Alot of factors in there, I doubt not wanting you to jump is the one they're weighing on. So, how about it? A compromise that you can jump when you're by yourself, just running along, but not when you're on a chocobo?

[Kimahri]

(First half put in another thread, should've added to this one lol ^^

I say F jumping, unless done in a ff:xiii style, or zelda. now, listen here...intead of adding jumping. what if they added a small climb feature? you ever see anybody jump in plate armor? even theoretically? not possible. You could however add a small climb feature, using a zelda type collision detection. I see a 2 inch drop? hop down. I see a 2 foot fence? I climb over. I don't have to ninja jump over those small obstacles.

Now for this I have a case in point that proves someone in FF series did jump while in plate armor........Steiner from FF9!

As far as a compromise on jumping with your character but not on chocobo, I say no. I can only see people jumping just for the fact to bunny hop. If you really want to jump, why not just add it in an /emote? As you said, we should keep it as only a FFXIII or Zelda game where it's recognized as a Collision Detection. We should only jump as a passive way to clear the obstacle.