[dev1008] About Jumping

[Lionheart]

I won't mind a button-trigger action near certain points of the terrain... just not free jumping anywhere.

[Betelgeuzah]

Aesthetically it will ENHANCE it and it IS very Final Fantasy-esque (especially with good animations). Why/How is it not? People are just afraid of change.

There has been no jumping mechanics in Final Fantasy before FFXIII (and even then it was automatic), thus I can't say it's very FF-esque at all. One of the best action games of the last decade (MGS, Demon's Souls) didn't have jumping, so the excuse of the game being somehow "inferior" for not having it doesn't apply either.

Aesthetically it can enhance it but the point is that when done wrong it will look dumb. Final Fantasy as a series and as an MMO is more classy than other MMO's, thus free for all jumping around does not enhance the aesthetics, but the opposite. Making it an action that happens when needed (maybe by a press of a button or automatically) is more classy and makes sense. Limitations are not always a bad thing, just like your name always starts with an uppercase letter and you can't use numbers or any weird letters in your name for the aesthetics' sake. The female models are also not merely a pair of huge boobs and ass, and the equipment stays for the most part classy even if mildly revealing. It is simply more classy that way, and so is jumping when you can do it only when needed.

[Spellstar]

I am sure that whatever additions you make to please the 'pro-jump' community will not deter those of us in the 'anti-jumping' community.

In essence: the Pro-jumping community are players that you wish to attract. the 'anti-jumping' community are die-hard FF fans like myself that don't like the idea based upon the history of FF, and the gameplay of FFXI. But if it WAS to be added, I don't think that any of us diehards would be deterred from the game; in fact, I think we would benefit from the addition simply because it would attract a younger and newer player base that we could either play with, or dominate with our FF skills.

TLR

Anti-jumping is a bunch of old FF fans shaking their canes telling youngsters to get off our yard.

the pro jump and anti jump community? why are people making a big war of it? so funny. so nerdy.

[Neptune]

It's sad that our most viewed thread is about jumping. All of you that are stirring up controversy in here are like a bunch of wig-wearing, bald old men stuck in tradition. "Send the troops to fight those damned Colonists! We aren't going to stand for those Americans not paying us taxes! Screw em'!"

For God's sake you are GAMERS! Most of you are under 30 years of age. Stop acting like a bunch of old people!

[Efrye]

If you want to prevent bunny hopping, the jumping could be done the way it is in Monster Hunter. Run off a ledge, and you jump off it. Run up to a ledge, and you jump up and climb up it. It's simple and easy and you don't even have to think about it, and makes it feel much more natural. [...]

From what I understood, they don't want to implement jumping just to get around the terrain easier but rather as a form of expression/emote for the player. (See page 44)

Still, I think the Monster Hunter way of jumping would be a perfect fit for Final Fantasy XIV. It worked in XIII as well after all, only that is was bound to very specific points and didn't trigger at any ledge. Which was less than optimal.

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

Sure it's irritating sometimes getting stuck on a rock, but lets not throw realistic design completely out of the window; you cant jump in real life, its unlikely a character in this game would rather huff it up a dangerous-footing of rocks than just go 2 feet to the left and walk/run up a gentle slope.

......what?

Sad that even reading skills have deteriorated to a point where people don't understand complex sentences anymore. In LittleLaLa's post there is a semicolon. I give you the decrypted version.

Sure it's irritating sometimes getting stuck on a rock you cant jump in real life, but lets not throw realistic design completely out of the window. Its unlikely a character in this game would rather huff it up a dangerous-footing of rocks than just go 2 feet to the left and walk/run up a gentle slope.

There, mystery solved and Kudos to LittleLaLa for what i think was an intentional troll attempt for the illiterate masses.

Doubleplusgood!

[Tezz_Xivectro]

There has been no jumping mechanics in Final Fantasy before FFXIII (and even then it was automatic), thus I can't say it's very FF-esque at all. One of the best action games of the last decade (MGS, Demon's Souls) didn't have jumping, so the excuse of the game being somehow "inferior" for not having it doesn't apply either.

Aesthetically it can enhance it but the point is that when done wrong it will look dumb. Final Fantasy as a series and as an MMO is more classy than other MMO's, thus free for all jumping around does not enhance the aesthetics, but the opposite. Making it an action that happens when needed (maybe by a press of a button or automatically) is more classy and makes sense. Limitations are not always a bad thing, just like your name always starts with an uppercase letter and you can't use numbers or any weird letters in your name for the aesthetics' sake. The female models are also not merely a pair of huge boobs and ass, and the equipment stays for the most part classy even if mildly revealing. It is simply more classy that way, and so is jumping when you can do it only when needed.

There's no notable jumping, especially in "main" FF titles, in Final Fantasy. The extent of Jump is usually in cut-scenes, the movies, automatically and as an ability.

The main point about it being "Final Fantasy" is that there is dramatically impossible jumping animations when it is done in FF (and hardly realistic at all).
To follow on SE's style, if they added cool animations for these jumps similar to how they animate them, then it would be pure win. NOT if everyone could run around spamming them. They would have a realistic length of time to do them. From in the air to when they land, and the delay of landing.
The limitation would be like a glorified emote that could only work while at 100% stamina (it's easy to add delay or limitations).


I've been proposing an "Auto-jump" since Alpha. Everyone kept saying that programming the terrain for jump/hop/climb points would be a lot of effort and simply adding jump/climb seemed reasonable (and it does from that aspect). I'm not sure if it's true or if they could just design the terrain edges a special way and then copy-paste so the rules apply everywhere.

Either way, it seems that not many people have a problem with using Zelda's system of jump/climb. If we all agree on something, then they will recognize it and likely develop/implement changes.

This is a back & forth argument no matter what. Let's show SE that we can settle on something. Auto-jump or Zelda-like system is something everyone seems to be in favor of.

[Jaber]

From what I understood, they don't want to implement jumping just to get around the terrain easier but rather as a form of expression/emote for the player. (See page 44)

Still, I think the Monster Hunter way of jumping would be a perfect fit for Final Fantasy XIV. It worked in XIII as well after all, only that is was bound to very specific points and didn't trigger at any ledge. Which was less than optimal.

I think what the playerbase wants is more important, and what the playerbase wants is anything but bunnyhopping, from what I've seen.
Personally I think having areas you have to climb up to and gaps you have to jump across would make exploring and traversing the world more enjoyable and less monotonous. Adding jumps as only a 'form of expression' is entirely useless and unrelated to the issue that brought up jumping in the first place.

[Lahru_Hukurou]

All he said was he's taking everything into consideration. Goodness, some of you people take everything far to seriously and far and away out of context. Let's look at what Yoshi-P ACTUALLY said. He mentioned the original plan was to make it like an E-mote, and that they were also planning to adjust collision detection, and that we should separate our views of collision detection (IE Invisible walls) from jumping. Meaning, no matter how you slice it, you were never going to see the functional jumping how you wanted it. It would have been minorly functional for fence hopping, but was otherwise a simple e-mote.

Also, at last look, I believe the reason the forums were added was because the produces wanted to know exactly what we thought so they could get a feel for what we wanted. So because you didn't get your way due to some other people voicing their own concerns is no reason to throw a tantrum.

Now, let's look at the feel for a lot of the posts. Most people aren't against jumping, they're only against the annoying issue that was 10 year olds in WoW hopping everywhere. If it's an E-Mote there's not a lot you can really do about that. At the same time, you're probably gonna see it added in some form or another. But the E-mote form is probably the one that's gonna end up. Which is what Yoshi-P originally planned.

Frothing at the mouth over it is really rather sad.

I'm glad I'm not the only person here that doesn't read too much into what Yoshi-san says.

[Miliant]

First off, I must assume that people saying there were no jumping mechanics in FF before FFXIII never played FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, etc... all "Final Fantasy"-branded games in which you character automatically jumps over obstacles when the distance is jumpable. I therefore gather that this anti-jump ultraconservative understanding of FF games is either incomplete because they have not played these games I mentioned, or a misinterpretation of what makes a FF game a FF. In either case, it defeats the argument that jumping would kill the FF atmosphere.

In addition, I would like to add that the jump/no jump discussion is probably the most viewed and discussed topic because it's not simply the discussion between those who want jump and those who do not. It is iconic of the argument between a retrograde way of understanding games that has led FFXIV to the state in which it is right now, and an innovative way of understanding games that seeks to make FFXIV a modern MMO, with modern mechanics that allows for more freedom of play.

I do not refer only to freedom of gameplay, but also freedom from the FFXI-bred behavior that leads players to want to control what others do, as is examplified by the many topics in this forums: "I don't want jump because everyone else will be jumping around, even if I won't", "I don't want pvp in the game, even if I can choose not to participate", "I want everyone to adjust to a system that clearly isn't working, not even for the devs", "Hey devs, don't listen to the requests", etc...