[dev1008] About Jumping

[Tezz_Xivectro]

Hi everyone, this is Producer/Director Yoshida!

Thanks so much for the lively discussion in regards to jumping.
Since the points that we are currently reviewing in regards to jumping have caused a lot of confusion for the community, I’ll go ahead organize them there.

Jump review:

* One form of emotional expression
* Additional action-related expression during movement
* Able to get over small fences (This is not the main idea)

I believe that jumping as a form of expression, which allows the player to indicate the location of NPCs and also to inform others of meeting locations, will be able to be used in many subtle ways.
However comments such as "Aesthetically, the game will be ruined by everyone jumping around," and "It’s not FINAL FANTASY," and other comments were a bit unexpected, so I decided to add these types of comments into our discussion as well.

Though the idea of jumping was based on wanting to reduce the feeling of being tied to the ground, I will continue to evaluate whether or not this should be implemented by following along with your discussions and comments!

Map Collision Detection Adjustments:

* Being unable to descend ledges where it seems you can easily fall off
* Feeling of strangeness when you can't climb up a hill that looks to be easily climbable

We have received a lot of feedback pointing these things out from numerous players, but the task of relieving stress during character movement is currently being tested by development in the form of map collision detection adjustments.
If you can think about this separately from the jump implementation discussion it would really help a lot.

Jump review:

Honestly, you need to see where the majority is at. I suggest in-game polls made easy for player voting as well as on the forum/lodestone.
From what I've gathered so far, the people not wanting jump are a minority, without any good arguments as to why we shouldn't add it.

Aesthetically it will ENHANCE it and it IS very Final Fantasy-esque (especially with good animations). Why/How is it not? People are just afraid of change.

Map Collision Detection Adjustments:

With jump out of the picture. I would consider a system VERY similar to that of The Legend of Zelda. Hopping off ledges and climbing.

At the very least, i believe most would be happy with a Zelda-like system if there were no jump.

[Nephera]

How about clamber, the more sloped the terrain the slower you go but you can always go up it, if you're going slow enough your animation changes to a sort of climbing animation.

[Rowyne]

Honestly, you need to see where the majority is at. I suggest in-game polls made easy for player voting as well as on the forum/lodestone.

I hope that Yoshi-P won't assume that the early kneejerk reactions represent the majority opinion of whether or not it should it be introduced, and how it should be implemented. This is a hot button topic that continues to grow.

He seems to be a fan of polls, and I hope this is also surveyed.

[Betelgeuzah]

Aesthetically it will ENHANCE it and it IS very Final Fantasy-esque (especially with good animations). Why/How is it not? People are just afraid of change.

There has been no jumping mechanics in Final Fantasy before FFXIII (and even then it was automatic), thus I can't say it's very FF-esque at all. One of the best action games of the last decade (MGS, Demon's Souls) didn't have jumping, so the excuse of the game being somehow "inferior" for not having it doesn't apply either.

Aesthetically it can enhance it but the point is that when done wrong it will look dumb. Final Fantasy as a series and as an MMO is more classy than other MMO's, thus free for all jumping around does not enhance the aesthetics, but the opposite. Making it an action that happens when needed (maybe by a press of a button or automatically) is more classy and makes sense. Limitations are not always a bad thing, just like your name always starts with an uppercase letter and you can't use numbers or any weird letters in your name for the aesthetics' sake. The female models are also not merely a pair of huge boobs and ass, and the equipment stays for the most part classy even if mildly revealing. It is simply more classy that way, and so is jumping when you can do it only when needed.

[Kaizer]

Is the only real complaint about jumping is that it will ruin the "immersion"? What about the fact that you have two legs that don't seem to function over random ledge heights?

[Tezz_Xivectro]

Is the only real complaint about jumping is that it will ruin the "immersion"? What about the fact that you have two legs that don't seem to function over random ledge heights?

It is one of the biggest arguments they have. And no it's not a good one.

What BREAKS immersion is not being able to step/hop/jump up a ledge or off one.
but but but... "You don't jump around in real life" (note this is a game & a FANTASY MMO + i hope you don't play games for absolute realism), but but "You have heavy armor on etc..." (look at older FF's the Movies etc). But..."it will become WoW" (it always seems these players have never truly played many MMOs).

That's pretty much the extent to the arguments being brought forward. As i've said before, it does more good than bad.

[Aramil]

It is one of the biggest arguments they have. And no it's not a good one.

What BREAKS immersion is not being able to step/hop/jump up a ledge or off one.
but but but... "You don't jump around in real life" (note this is a game & a FANTASY MMO), but but "You have heavy armor on etc..." (look at older FF's the Movies etc). But..."it will become WoW" (it always seems these players have never truly played many MMOs).

That's pretty much the extent to the arguments being brought forward. As i've said before, it does more good than bad.

Actually both break immersion. No z-axis break it and irrealistic jump break it too.

Jump to go on something? No, normally if the place you want to get to is low enough you'll just step on it and if it's too high you'll climb, not jump. When going somewhere you would walk or run and in front of an unsurmountable obstacle you would go around it, not try a series of well placed jump to go over it.

The only time were jumping help immersion is to get jump off sometime or to use it to cross a gap.

I think i said it already in this thread but for a jump that help immersion it would need to be realistic meaning not jumping to high, not being able to fall from too high(at least not without dieing) and not being able to move around by jumping as fast as by running.

[Tezz_Xivectro]

I hope that Yoshi-P won't assume that the early kneejerk reactions represent the majority opinion of whether or not it should it be introduced, and how it should be implemented. This is a hot button topic that continues to grow.

He seems to be a fan of polls, and I hope this is also surveyed.

Well i've learned that not everyone reads the forums(and we can be considered a minority even). There's quite a large amount of players who strictly stay in-game(at least in other games, idk about FF14). I figured since the lodestone polls are linked to our accounts, then logging in would be the same. For a 1-time vote.

[Rowyne]

Well i've learned that not everyone reads the forums(and we can be considered a minority even).

I'm afraid of that being true, as well. I don't think the forums alone represent a large enough chunk of the community.

[Tezz_Xivectro]

Sry didn't meant it as the absolute truth ^^;

What I posted was of course my opinion and not facts. Other can disagree with me but it's what I think.

As for immersion does not mean realism, that's true. But in my case i find that realism help immersion(not taken to extreme of course)

yea i know not to read things literally. As not many people posting mean everything literally.
The fact that we're all here talking implies that we are using our opinions. Sometimes people forget that.