The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Remilia_Nightfall]

...

I am merely proposing a solution, which has worked quite well for me and other people I know, in multiple occasions and in multiple games. It's always the same story. Some people are willing to take matters into their hands, creating and managing communities - others just want things served on a platter. It's human nature, sadly.

The OP states that most FCs require 3 nights a week - well, I'm not on his server but I am part of a FC and a static that only raids 2 times a week, and we are on T10. Most of us have family and jobs. We are no "hardcore" by any stretch of imagination.

How could this happen? Because someone decided to put a bit of effort into it, decided to search and manage people with similar views of the game and similar mindset. Everyone can do that, it just requires initiative.

But yeah, lots of people keep hoping to clear Coil easily using PF or DF, only to go whine (yes, this is whining) on the forums, refusing to see that there ARE other solutions to this "problem" just because they are too troublesome for them, so it's best to ignore them and hoping that screaming enough will convince SE to barge in and help.

Call me however you want - cynical, lacking empathy or whatever - seems to me I am not the one insulting, here :/

[NyarukoW]

I still don't understand what's so hard about finding a FC / static. ....

Well are have you walked in the OP's shoes? Finding a FC is easy, finding static that does T6 and up, that is often much harder than Raffy, Melusine, Avatar, and Nael combined. Why else are there threads like this one, or this: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ality_is_very/

Forming a static is not easy, keeping a static together is also not easy. Getting an LS together is only a small first step and YMMV. I've seen statics come and go. But what is fairly consistent is that you see learning PFs not filling for hours, and clear sellers advertising 24/7. The correlation implied by that data points strongly to people who are ethically challenged and an attitude of contempt and disdain for the newbies, and newer players, while gladly taking their gil.

Just what is so wrong to ask that people look out for one another instead of looking to exploit them? What is so wrong to as that people be more inclusive. Sure everyone's time is limited, but why not help instead of posting rage against the newer players.

[Ellatrix]

you see learning PFs not filling for hours, and clear sellers advertising 24/7

I don't see any merc runs going on and there's a Shiva learning party that's sitting at 6/7 right now that has been up for 9 minutes. There's also one begging for a mog ex clear which is understandably not filling because really, who wants to join a PF called "need clear". Bunch of other things in PF too.

Something something where apparently mercs are the cause of everything that's bad in everything. Stay in your bubble, since you might have a breakdown if you ever get out of it. You also continuously ignore the main method vets help newer players: posting guides so that they don't have to spend time doing things that don't work or figure out how something works.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

...

Yes, I walked in the OP's shoes. And I know that forming and managing a static is not easy, since I've been doing that personally since day one. People come and go, people grab their loot and say "FU" to other members, I've been there, I've seen that, I know how hard it is to find people and keep them together.

Still, it's doable. It's not easy, but it's doable. Just like T9.

Point is, some people enjoy working long and hard to accomplish something. It's only natural that they dislike players who think they can just jump in and get easy kills just because "OMG empathy". It's not how it works.

You can't find a static? Create one. Will it be hard? Yes. So what?

[Aana]

There is more endgame than PF. You guys realize a great many people managed to create statics, join groups and clear content before PF existed right? Just because you opened a menu, type in a sentence and hit enter, and proceed to stare at your screen for 3 hours doesn't mean you are 'trying'. That is passively waiting for things to happen. Party finder and duty finder are passive methods to accomplish goals. You are simply waiting for people to join or letting a computer server build you a group. You are fishing. Line in the water hoping for a bite. You have to be more active if you want to make progress faster. Stop depending on df and PF to create a magical winning team. The successful people aren't waiting on the shore with a line hanging out praying for a bite. They are actively searching not passively waiting.

Party and duty finder are tools to use, not solutions in themselves.

[Aldora]

The thing with MMO’s is that it requires a lot of investment of your time and effort to progress in the game. Everything you do in an MMO will take time and a lot of effort (depending on the type of content you are doing) to complete.

The MMO industry has changed a lot in the past 10 years. The people who have been playing games for the past decade have changed too. Some have gotten full time jobs and perhaps a family of their own, or they are new to industry all together. You can see a trend where we as players feel that we don’t have enough time to play the game, but still want to progress through end-game raids. You can also see trends where players like us want to feel that sense of gratification when getting a item you want or surpassing that brick wall in front of us/glass roof above us, but with less time or effort spend as we used to do 10 years ago (mainly because we have less time to spend in the game then we used to).

We want to spend our time as efficiently as possible in order to progress towards our (personal) goal. Be it clearing End Game content, getting that special item, etc.

A lot of people remember the days where we would stand in crowded city-states, shouting for members to form a party. Some of those people also remember the horror of waiting for hours before actually getting a party together...

The Duty Finder and the Party Finder are means to make that process faster or at least more bearable. The problem with that is, we tend to socialize less with the people living in the same world. Some even place a lot of stress on others by placing high expectations on the party, or are simply rude (because they can).

It’s like Krr said in the post above me:

Contrary to popular belief, finding or running "your own" static is not as easy as casting a spell on /r/recruitment or your server's forum that summons 7 other players that mesh with your group's needs and playstyle. You will spend hours in empty party finders trying to find people at 'your level', because people above 'your level' have no incentive - and in most cases negative incentive - to ever want to be around you.

It’s not like there aren’t any high level players that will join parties like that. But most of them would most likely have no real incentive to join learning parties or run low level content.

I can only talk from my own perspective. But, i tend to stick to my own FC, rather than scouting the PF if there are any people that need help. The main reason is that there is always someone who could use some help. Be it with the daily Expert Roulette, needing a tank for Aurum Vale so that they can level their class or need a hand with the Relic Reborn quest.

If not, then i have my own static with which i do Coil a few night per week or have other stuff i need to do myself (like doing the Main/Side Story quests, crafting, etc). Due to this, i don’t have a lot of time to spend on helping people i don’t know.

If i spot people in Mor Dhona or Coerthas shouting that they are looking for members for something like a Chimera or perhaps a Cape Westwind, sure i’ll join when i have time to spare. I’m all for helping people. But like i said, since i don’t have much time to spare, i would not be eager to join Coil or Extreme Primal Learning parties that might take an hour or even longer.

So, from that point of view. I believe that community should at least try to help out their fellow Eorzeans, but I think other people should also respect that not everyone has time to help out or feels like helping out.

It works both ways.

I’ll use the following quote from Tiggy, since that’s basically what this topic is about.

MMO's are what you make of them. If you sit around waiting for things to happen then you're going to do a lot of sitting around. Proactive players get the most done and make the most progress.

As mentioned before, the Duty Finder and Party Finder are means to gather people to form parties and tackle content together, without having the need to have a lot of friends or a Linkshell/Company to help out.

But, at the same time i would also like stress out that there are benefits when it comes to joining a Linkshell/Company when it comes to gathering people to form parties. Because, like i said above, people like me (who love to help other out) tend to help out their members faster than “complete strangers”.

You just need to find a Linkshell/Company that best suits your needs as a player.

So, my advice: Take a look around your Worlds section on the forum and see if you can find a Linkshell/Company that is looking for members and are willing to help. You can also start a new thread, saying that you are looking for people to tackle Coil with. Players who are in the same situation as you will be able to reach you there.

You can also set your status to “Looking for party/members” and add some text to your Search Info that you are looking for people to do Coil with.

Add all of those things together and it shouldn’t be too hard to find like minded people to do content with.

[NyarukoW]

So you irresponsibly say this:

I still don't understand what's so hard about finding a FC / static. ....

And glibly say this:

..
You can't find a static? Create one. Will it be hard? Yes. So what?

If you don't like the so-called "whining", you don't have to the read the post on this thread. Player want to post their experience and opinions should be free to do so, whether it is "whining" to you is irrelevant. The OP did nothing wrong stating his position and requesting help.

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... There's also one begging for a mog ex clear which is understandably not filling because really, who wants to join a PF called "need clear". ...

When you are on the PF you are begging. What is so wrong with that? You don't have to help because you rather sell clears, that much you've already made very obvious. You probably want to spit at panhandlers too, when a more civil option of simply ignoring them is available, but your rather spew your hatred and contempt for other players. Heaven forbid you'd ever need to ask for help in real life or in game.

[Ellatrix]

Of course you ignore my entire post and jump on a tangent. Don't want to try (and fail) to counter the real point now would you?

[Remilia_Nightfall]

So you irresponsibly say this: stuff

Sorry, I fail to see your point.

Yes, I said that it's "easy" finding an FC / static. FINDING is the key word here. CREATING and MANAGING one, on the other hand, is hard.

Of course, if no one takes initiative in CREATING communities, finding them becomes hard as well - but it's just a byproduct. In itself, finding a group should not be hard.

You believe it's hard? Then create one. That's exactly what I said.

And sorry, you are posting on a public forum so I have every right to read this thread and reply to you. If you only want to chat with people who agree with you, opening a thread here was the worst possible thing to do.

[NyarukoW]

Of course you ignore my entire post and jump on a tangent. Don't want to try (and fail) to counter the real point now would you?

...Stay in your bubble, ...

I am just staying in my happy bubble. LOL.

In any case you have no point. You have an anecdote at best, one instance in time on one server that the clear seller is not advertising on your PF, because they are actually in instance doing their actual sale maybe? That is not a point. Perhaps you might not even be scrolling down far enough, who know, you may just choose to be blind to it because you like your bubble much better.

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...
Yes, I said that it's "easy" finding an FC / static. FINDING is the key word here. CREATING and MANAGING one, on the other hand, is hard.
..
finding them becomes hard as well - but it's just a byproduct. In itself, finding a group should not be hard.

Well aren't we real weaselly with words here. "Should not be hard" but "it becomes hard". Finding, creating, and managing are all hard, they are all intertwined, you can not decouple them. Regardless of your intent, you shown you want to be dismissive of the OP's position. If you don't want to empathize with the OP, you do NOT have to, but you get to don't pretend the problem does NOT exist nor you get to pretend that it is easy to solve.