Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[VahnValbosce]

You're fighting against other players stupidity and ineptitude.

This is non-sense.

Allow me to reword your paragraph: "Good players should be able to carry noobs"

You really think its fair for 7 other people to have the fight NERFED on them because 1 person can't pull their weight? What the heck??? Now you are totally giving in to that 1 person, because Nerfing the entire fight is hurting the 7 other people who CAN clear it!!!

[Riepah]

Now you are totally giving in to that 1 person, because Nerfing the entire fight is hurting the 7 other people who CAN clear it!!!

How exactly does it "hurt" you when content you've cleared in the past gets nerfed? Why do you care so much?

Sure, if we look at Amdapor Keep's Demon Door, removing the bees was quite unnecessary and makes the fight stupidly easy, I think they should've been kept in. But yeah.. big deal? How can a nerf of past content hurt anybody?
"Uh, what an unnecessary change for silly noobs." <- that is the reasonable extent of what your reaction should be to this. Claiming you're "hurt" is really overboard. If you hadn't beaten it before I could understand that you felt a challenge was taken away from you before you had the chance to overcome it by yourself, but if you already beat it before the nerf, it really doesn't affect you adversely, no matter how you look at it. Aside from the "I want to feel special" thing, that is.

[VahnValbosce]

How exactly does it "hurt" you when content you've cleared in the past gets nerfed? Why do you care so much?

...But yeah.. big deal?

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

People enjoy challenging content, that is the truth. Because 1 person can't overcome the challenge and they constantly wipe the raid, instead nerf the fight for 7 other party members??? No thanks. That is BACKWARDS progression at its finest.

Beat AV in XI yet?

Easy content from SE, right? Simple mechanics, right?

How many years did it take for a legit win?

THIS IS NOT FFXI,

It's 2015 ALMOST and an entirely different game. Impossible Mechanics are different than challenging mechanics. TURN 9 is Challenging, Turn 9 is NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

And on that note: I'm done with this Forum Topic, I figured out it's basically just a bunch of people asking for content to get nerfed because -> they are the 1 person that wipes the raid -> they are too busy to play this game -> they don't want to work on something and progress with other people -> they want to be able to carry people, or don't have the patience for them to learn.

So their solution is: Make the game suck by Nerfing Content! ... Yea, great logic.

[Aethaeryn]

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

Nice slippery slope argument there. Plenty of games nerf old content when new content is added without suddenly dumbing down the new content. You can't know that SE will start making all encounters easy until it happens.

[Hyrist]

It is a Big Deal actually.

It presents a negative idea to the development team, that somehow they are creating raid content in the first place that is somehow WAYYYYY too difficult for the FFXIV playerbase. So then when developing future content, they will ALWAYS ease up on mechanics. Pretty soon the "past content Nerf" will expand into "current content Nerf". Don't think this will happen? If this Nerf Trend continues, you can bet top dollar that it WILL HAPPEN.

People enjoy challenging content, that is the truth. Because 1 person can't overcome the challenge and they constantly wipe the raid, instead nerf the fight for 7 other party members??? No thanks. That is BACKWARDS progression at its finest.

I'll take that bet.

Nothing in the entire year of precedent we've established has there ever been an indication they would /ever/ budge on current content.

See: Atma.

There's a very clear trend to follow here that they've kept to in spite of uproar on either side, and they've not budged an inch on it, much to the determent and success depending on which end of the seesaw you sit upon at any particular time. It's six months before they make adjustment. Half a year to cover top end content before adjustments start, which is usually a couple weeks after the new content comes out.

So yes, top dollar? What does that mean to you? Because I would put money against your prediction. Precedent is on my side in this matter this one looks like a real safe bet to take. If anything, they've added Savage Coil, which is harder content that they have not made any announcements to change. So really, the facts weigh heavily against you. Are you sure you want to put money against this, because I'd gladly take it from you if you're just offering to give it away.

[VahnValbosce]

I'll take that bet.

Ok take that bet then. I'm done with this topic. Nobody is changing anyones mind, it will never happen.

You can all continue to thumbs-up eachothers posts to make eachother feel special and then get your content nerfed.

Then once all the content is extremely easy and takes 30 minutes to clear, you'll sit around wondering why half the playerbase has quit and the entire game has gone Free 2 Play. Who will be to blame then? OH WAIT, It must of been those nasty hardcore elitist players that ruin every single game!!!

LOL... utter non-sense.

[Hyrist]

LOL... utter non-sense.

I'm wondering if you are aware of the Stawman and Slipper Slope argumentative fallacies, because you're using them. And the fact that you're generalizing individuals that disagree with you? That really does solidify the fact that you're not listening to the counter-arguments, nor are you thinking beyond yourself.

My Raiding group may be rocked to the core with the changes of Third Coil, if Third Coil enables us to aid our other FC mates. We flat out waited Second Coil down because we wanted to progress as a FC and Coil Lockouts prevented that. If that's no longer the case, we're going to want to push, HARD through SCOB and into FCOB. Echo to us is a non-matter. We get through content when we get through content.

That said, for those who don't want to be caught a year or more behind due to content gating? This is pretty big deal. I'm in staunch support of SE taking the intelligent route and having a preserved Coil, and an adjusted Coil. So that groups can play to their preferences.

It's unintelligent design to have one difficulty setting in games these days.

Challenging Content Brings people TOGETHER more than it tears people apart. That is the point of an MMO, to work together WITH people to overcome a challenge.

Strawman argument, it bleeds out players so that only the niche people who can meet the specific criteria remain, and those who think alike, naturally come together. It's called homogenizing your player base. It does not bring people together, it pushes people away and those who are left come together.

It can be something simple as having a work schedule conflict that can cause a punishingly difficult game to be impossible for a player. Basing your ideals of bringing people together on one set standard, means you are ostracizing the rest. It's simple anthropology.

[VahnValbosce]

I'm wondering if you are aware of the Stawman and Slipper Slope argumentative fallacies.

They are NOT strawman arguments. THEY are factual arguements based on the TACTICS of other MMO companies. FFXIV is an MMO.

I spent 1 month and 2 weeks with a CASUAL STATIC to cear Turn 6, 7 and 8. We spent 4 hours PER WEEK, it took us 6 weeks TOTAL. That is a total of 24 TOTAL HOURS of progression to LEARN and CLEAR Turn 6, 7 and 8.

1 month and 2 weeks consists of roughly 45 days, 45 days = 1080 hours. 6 weeks of progression at 4 hours PER WEEK consists of 24 hours. 24 hours out of 1080 HOURS??? We were a CASUAL group, CASUAL players HAVING FUN and JOKING AROUND with eachother.

If you cannot clear coil within that time allotment, then 2 things:
#1. You shouldn't be subscribing to a Pay 2 Play MMO, because you obviously need more time to learn and progress in a fight, but you simply do not have the time, due to your "busy real life schedule" or whatever else it is that takes up your precious time.
#2. You are the person holding people back, and you should just accept that fact and work on your progression and get better at the game.

If you think I'm being a jerk about these comments, then what can I tell you? YOU are the jerk for wanting to ruin other peoples challenging and fun experiences by having things nerfed.

[Geesus]

I'll take that bet.

Nothing in the entire year of precedent we've established has there ever been an indication they would /ever/ budge on current content.

See: Atma.

What about Atma? They are increasing the drop rate. Was announced yesterday during the Live Letter stream.

There's a very clear trend to follow here that they've kept to in spite of uproar on either side, and they've not budged an inch on it, much to the determent and success depending on which end of the seesaw you sit upon at any particular time. It's six months before they make adjustment. Half a year to cover top end content before adjustments start, which is usually a couple weeks after the new content comes out.

No idea wtf you're talking about. Sorta do. Really? nope.

So yes, top dollar? What does that mean to you? Because I would put money against your prediction. Precedent is on my side in this matter this one looks like a real safe bet to take. If anything, they've added Savage Coil, which is harder content that they have not made any announcements to change. So really, the facts weigh heavily against you. Are you sure you want to put money against this, because I'd gladly take it from you if you're just offering to give it away.

As for Savage Coil. Let's take this from the true perspective that IS about Savage.

Savage was actually the ORIGINAL Dev content. They deemed it TOO difficult for the current player base to be able to clear. Therefore, even prior to LAUNCHING IT, they "nerfed" it. Now, it's out as a fun challenge, epeen stroking festival for ANYONE to try and yup, most likely won't be nerfed because, it's for funnzies.

So yup. You're astute observation about Savage will stay on point SIMPLY because; they don't NEED to nerf Savage because, it doesn't f'ing MATTER if you clear it. It's NOT for progression.

[Aethaeryn]

And on that note: I'm done with this Forum Topic, I figured out it's basically just a bunch of people asking for content to get nerfed because -> they are the 1 person that wipes the raid -> they are too busy to play this game -> they don't want to work on something and progress with other people -> they want to be able to carry people, or don't have the patience for them to learn.

So their solution is: Make the game suck by Nerfing Content! ... Yea, great logic.

You're still ignoring all of the people who haven't even attempted second coil yet because they don't have the drive or the time to spend tons of hours wiping to learn fights. Hint: There were more people not doing second coil over the last six months than people making real progression with it. Game doesn't suddenly suck because old content is eased in difficulty when it was already steamroll easy for your static to beat it for the last several months. Stop trying to force everyone to play the game the way you do.