Please add clearance condition to Group Finder

[NyarukoW]

You don't condone exclusion, but you condone someone joining a farm party with 0 experience and wiping the party only cause they need to learn? In a farming party.

Where have I ever promoted the notion that newbies go join farm parties to wipe people? I just say people that want to farm should have their parties together already, but if they are using the PF, they do NOT have the right to exclude newbies. The PF is not tool for them to exclude people. If they happen to get newbie, they should help the newbie learn. If you don't want to do that, don't abuse the PF.

Gear != skill, but a win ...

A win/clear does NOT equal knowledge or skill of the mechanics either. They could have been dead in the corner from being to end of a instance and got a clear too.

.. Stop acting like veteran players owe you anything and must help you.

I do NOT owe them veteran players anything either. I do NOT want to help them or join their farm parties so they can be stuck on the PF forever just like the clear selling parties, and other advertisements.

The system also does NOT owe the farming people a way for efficient farming if they are not going to put in the effort to recruit and tryout people. If you want to have stuff on farm status, have your 4/8 man static set and have a schedule in place. Do NOT abuse the PF to be rude and inconsiderate and excluding people from participation.

The "clearnace condition" is just one more lousy schoolyard antics of the older sibling trying to exclude their younger sibling from participating. You know your parents will never approve and neither will SE.

[Yoninxi]

Where have I ever promoted the notion that newbies go join farm parties to wipe people? I just say people that want to farm should have their parties together already, but if they are using the PF, they do NOT have the right to exclude newbies. The PF is not tool for them to exclude people. If they happen to get newbie, they should help the newbie learn. If you don't want to do that, don't abuse the PF.



A win/clear does NOT equal knowledge or skill of the mechanics either. They could have been dead in the corner from being to end of a instance and got a clear too.

I'm convinced you're trolling now.

[NyarukoW]

I'm convinced you're trolling now.

You know what that sound like ... "But MOM!!"
--------------------------
Mom goes, "but what"

You say "my brother is too slow"

Mom tells you, "help your brother include him in your games"

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It is not about efficiency, it is about including everyone. The clearance condition is wrong and bad at every level. Your priorities are wrong, and the "clearance condition" will NOT be a easy button to farming heaven.

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Salary is the collective objective set in the PF finder example: what we are farming for.
...Basicly your logic makes ME a slave to the rest of the player base...

That hardly sounds like being paid for service. That is a shared objective, so they are not your slave, and they are NOT being hired either. It is people coming together with an agreement to achieve said goal. You are not slave nor are they, and you are not some employer nor are they your employee. So you don't get to exclude them with some bogus "clearance condition" that does NOT equate to skill anyways.

And it is your logic that is broken. You don't have to teach if you don't want to, but still don't get to exclude people. You can wipe and you can vote abandon, and try someone else. You do NOT get to shortcut this process, nor do you have a right to shortcut this process. If you are using the PF, you are at the mercy of people joining to help you. You are begging, beggars can not be choosers.

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And just like newbies are no more entitled to free carry/clears, nor are any of you entitled to get a "clearance condition" button for easy farming. It doesn't matter if you put in the time to learn the fight etc. If you want to farm you need to put in the time and effort to recruit. The PF is not there for you to abuse. And you certainly do NOT get the right to divide up the player base and promote clear sells and RMT in turn. So leave well enough alone, let things be as they are.

[Yoninxi]

wat

There you go comparing people without clears to disabled people again.

Give me one good reason why I should spend my limited daily time teaching people I don't know and I'm in no way shape or form obligated to help? If I want to help people I join a learning/clear party to help them.which I do often. If I want a farm, ie quick repeated kill party, I'm not gonna be bothered with teaching anyone. I'm sure that anyone joining the farm party shares those same sentiments.

We already did our time dying hundreds of times to learn the content. Why should people without clears be able to bypass that and try to get free carries?. And before someone jumps in, I am NOT talking about people who are able to kill it, but just haven't put the nail in the coffin yet.

Notice how I keep bolding learning / clear party? Maybe you'll catch on and realize what they're for and stop comparing people without clears to people that need handicap ramps or are mentally slow.

[NyarukoW]

There you go comparing people without clears to mentally disabled people again

I don't know about your brother. But my brother was certainly not mentally disabled, he was just little shorter and when we were kids and played basketball they would steal the ball from out under him, and we would lose the game again and again. Probably you guys are single child and got that entitlement mentality, but I was told share and put up with the extra difficulty levels they add.

...If I want a farm, ie quick repeated kill party, I'm not gonna be bothered with teaching anyone. ...

If you can NOT be bother to teach, why should the universe or the rest of the server be obliged grant you your quick farm party? You don't even bother to network and recruit, just want to abuse the PF. This is entitlement mentality clear and obvious.

In practical terms, putting up a PF asking for multiple clear and farm is really bait to get people that are lazy like the PF host who didn't bother to do the legwork to organize a static, and the people to lazy to have practice will be baited right into these farm parties and they really do deserve each other. When lazy meets lazy, you get the mess you got. You do NOT need nor deserve a "clear condition button", you got each other.

[Yoninxi]

wat

i really hate wasting my daily post limit on some on like you.

So in your world, vets looking for a quick kill are lazy for using the PF for a pick up group, but people without clears and no experience who join those parties are not? If they leech a kill out of that party, do they automatically become lazy when they join another farm party or create one in your world?

If creating a Farm group is lazy, then what the hell are people who bypass learning/progression/clear parties? Hell what is the point of the Duty Finder in your world?

If you going a learning/clear party, you expect to learn? Am I right? You wouldn't want elitist "assholes" coming in the party and abusing the newbies. Am I right?

But If you join a farm party, you should still have to teach newbies? Every time if one so joins? You should have to deal with people with 0 experience wiping the party?

If Thats the case, just remove all description options and all parameters from party finder entries, and just have the default search info.

[Mutemutt]

And it is your logic that is broken. You don't have to teach if you don't want to, but still don't get to exclude people. You can wipe and you can vote abandon, and try someone else. You do NOT get to shortcut this process, nor do you have a right to shortcut this process. If you are using the PF, you are at the mercy of people joining to help you. You are begging, beggars can not be choosers.

And here I was, under the impression that you could set the rules for your own party. If I want a party with 7 whm and 1 pld, I expect everyone that joins to adhere to that rule. Would that be excluding people? Yes. But am I allowed to do that? Yes. My party, my rules; if someone doesn't like that, or just can't do that, they don't get to join.

Honestly, if people are looking to learn or are just trying to clear, they should make their own pf for that; get people of similar situations to join them and some friends (or complete strangers) that just feel like helping to come along. They should not be allowed to join any and every party they want. If someone really wants to join any party and not have to worry about any rules, they can use duty finder.

[Alistaire]

And here I was, under the impression that you could set the rules for your own party. If I want a party with 7 whm and 1 pld, I expect everyone that joins to adhere to that rule. Would that be excluding people? Yes. But am I allowed to do that? Yes. My party, my rules; if someone doesn't like that, or just can't do that, they don't get to join.

Honestly, if people are looking to learn or are just trying to clear, they should make their own pf for that; get people of similar situations to join them and some friends (or complete strangers) that just feel like helping to come along. They should not be allowed to join any and every party they want. If someone really wants to join any party and not have to worry about any rules, they can use duty finder.

And if you'd posted this 25 pages ago this thread could've been the length it should've been. This is a fine suggestion; there's no reason for SE to not implement it, coding issues notwithstanding.

[NyarukoW]

And here I was, under the impression that you could set the rules for your own party. If I want a party with 7 whm and 1 pld, I expect everyone that joins to adhere to that rule.....

Anyone can be a PLD and anyone can be a WHM. Class selection for party composition is in no way exclusionary like a "clearance condition". Additionally, people can have multiple classes and they can join as PLD or WHM and switch to BRD or MNK easy. A PF creator you have the option to kick. But I've joined plenty of hunt parties where the settings are all messed (due to people joining and leaving) and PF creator is absent minded to correct them, I just join as one and switch to another and there is no issue whatsoever.

The system is not for bringing people together with a common goal, not for people who think they can get things easy. The people that want quick clears come in two flavors, and they all share one trait, they all want things easy which is the goal they stated and share. The system should NOT allow one to exclude the other, they deserve each other.

[Gucci_Charms]

The people that want quick clears come in two flavors, and they all share one trait, they all want things easy which is the goal they stated and share. The system should NOT allow one to exclude the other, they deserve each other.

Quick clear parties have to exclude the new players though. It's the only way it will be a quick clear. 7 fully experienced players with previous wins teaching one player and wiping for hours to familiarize that player with all the mechanics is not considered "quick."

7 fully experienced players with previous wins getting another fully experienced player with previous wins will likely have larger rate of success, resulting in a quicker run.

The system is therefore working properly in excluding the new player from the quick clear party. The 7 fully experienced players with previous wins deserve the other fully experienced player - not the new player.

System working as intended