Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Exstal]

It takes time for things to be developed. That's why.

[Risvertasashi]

It takes time for things to be developed. That's why.

There's been no hint there will ever be anything like this in XIV. But if we let the devs know it's something we'd like to see...

If this game turns anymore into XI its going to drop so many subs.

XI was just an awful game.

Again, I don't want XI-2. Please read my previous posts and original post.

[Exstal]

There's been no hint there will ever be anything like this in XIV. But if we let the devs know it's something we'd like to see...

I'm sure there was a very small hint of Automoton when XI first launched in Japan as well. We can only hope it'll happen.

been about 4 years now. This games direction is pretty much set in stone.

Casual duty finder theme park with a bunch of one shot mechanics and a gear treadmill.

I didn't realize ARR was released for 4 years already. Boy, how time flies!

[Risvertasashi]

I'm sure there was a very small hint of Automoton when XI first launched in Japan as well. We can only hope it'll happen.

No. We can do more than hope. If enough people agree, we can let the devs know it's something we would like to see happen.

[Sapphic]

I didn't realize ARR was released for 4 years already. Boy, how time flies!

It only seems like a couple aof weeks ago that they celebrated 1 year!

Some cant get over that FFXIV ARR is a totally different game to FFXIV 1.x.

On topic, it is very hard to have deeply complex jobs/classes without a) making them a necessity and b) unwanted for most content. Something FFXI failed badly on. So many jobs, and so many of them not wanted compared to a small number of mandatory jobs, eg BRD and stun SCH.

Also, as happened even with FFXI, more depth came with expansions. So see what 3.0 brings. Yoshi stated prior to the expac they will not be doing anything really different or new frmo the standard design, that may change with the xpac.

[Tupsi]

It only seems like a couple aof weeks ago that they celebrated 1 year!

Some cant get over that FFXIV ARR is a totally different game to FFXIV 1.x.

You do realize majority of ARR's systems originated in 1.0-1.22..right? The only "difference" is how it's impelemented in certain areas, otherwise no, it's not totally different - if you touched any of the jobs that isn't ACN/SMN/SCH, you're playing something that was created and existed up to 4 years ago. Even ACN was already in the game but not usable for players.

Them streamlining certain content doesn't mean it's "compeletly different", a lot of the lore is still very much the same, just reformatted to fit the "5 years later".

[Darki]

You do realize majority of ARR's systems originated in 1.0-1.22..right? The only "difference" is how it's impelemented in certain areas, otherwise no, it's not totally different - if you touched any of the jobs that isn't ACN/SMN/SCH, you're playing something that was created and existed up to 4 years ago. Even ACN was already in the game but not usable for players.

Them streamlining certain content doesn't mean it's "compeletly different", a lot of the lore is still very much the same, just reformatted to fit the "5 years later".

I'm glad someone brought up 1.0. 1.0 had far more complexity then 2.0 and onward. 1.0 had what?...64 different kinds of material? that's just one example and I could be wrong on the number.
the point i'm making is the complexity was blamed for 1.0's unpopularity so SE made a hard left turn into simplicity as a model for 2.0 and onward. So I doubt SE will add complexity to this game any time soon. At least not as mandatory.

[Gilthas]

You do realize majority of ARR's systems originated in 1.0-1.22..right? The only "difference" is how it's impelemented in certain areas, otherwise no, it's not totally different - if you touched any of the jobs that isn't ACN/SMN/SCH, you're playing something that was created and existed up to 4 years ago. Even ACN was already in the game but not usable for players.

Them streamlining certain content doesn't mean it's "compeletly different", a lot of the lore is still very much the same, just reformatted to fit the "5 years later".

Considering how many people were complaining about 2.0's battle system being a downgrade from 1.21's, I'd say that the battle system is a lot different. The only people that insist that the game is 5 years old are the ones complaining all the time because they want to make unfair comparisons to 5 year old games.

Because I have the time:

Just saying: rotation + amount of buttons available =/= complexity. FFXI had multiple jobs that weren't just sit and wait for TP and had reactionary gameplay rather than static. It offers the same complexity as ARR, but in different ways.

FFXIV also has reactionary gameplay, you just choose to ignore it to support your argument. All physical DPS classes have an interrupt. Some actually have multiple.

Thief: Sneak Attack Trick Attack. Position mattered in order to help the tank hold hate.

Both melee DPS in FFXIV have way more positional requirements than Thief (or any dps in FFXI really). While SATA does bring hate management to the table, we're talking about two abilities that are on a 1 minute timer here. This suddenly makes Thief more complex than Monk and Dragoon in FFXIV? The only way Thief had an interrupt was by equipping a subpar weapon and having TP to use the appropriate weapon skill. The only status effects they could inflict (pre-75-cap removal) came from crossbow bolts. Dragoons in FFXIV come equipped with two Stuns, Monks with 1 Stun (and an unreliable Silence I guess), both come equipped with DoT attacks, AoE attacks and inate status effects to apply to the mob. And FFXIV is still at a level 50 cap.

Ranger: Range you shoot your bow/gun/crossbow from actually effected how much damage you do. Knowing when a good time to use barrage and other skills was, etc.

FFXI was more complex because you had to decide when to use your skills? You think the same doesn't apply to FFXIV? You're right that range affected the damage that you did, but does that make it a more complex job than FFXIV's Bard that has DoTs to keep on the mob, a silence interrupt, a self buff to keep up in it's rotation (Ranger in FFXI didn't even have a rotation, just spamming the ranged attack key until 100 TP) and AoE attacks? And I'm ignoring the songs to keep the comparison strictly to DPS.

Ninja: Proper use and timing of Utsusemi Ichi and Ni so you don't die (because Ninja tank) and use of other Ninjutsu for specific types of debuffs.

Ninja was probably slightly more complex than Paladins in FFXIV because of the timing of Utsusemi, but Warriors in FFXIV have a lot more to do than Ninja ever did in FFXI. But then you also consider how multiple mob tanking in FFXI really wasn't a thing (we slept everything at least at 75 level cap) and how the function of Provoke in FFXIV allows for tank swapping mechanics too, so there's really no question about the game where tanking is more complex.

Scholar: Flipping between black and white magic stances when necessary (yes, in party situations as well).

What exactly do you think White Mages and Scholars currently do in FFXIV?

I daresay there could be more complexity in XI than there is in ARR.

The only real added complexity that FFXI had was that it had dedicated support jobs in Bard and Corsair, meaning that the game had 4 roles instead of the 3 used in ARR. Though, it's not like Bards and Corsairs had complex duties other than judging distances so their buffs hit the right players (not really that hard in a game where AoE dodge mechanics were pretty much inexistant so party members could easily maintain positions).

Didn't address Dancer or Blue Mage since FFXIV doesn't really have an equivalent to these and they were added to FFXI years after it's release. FFXIV obviously will have more jobs in the future, we just have to wait and see how they'll be implemented.

[File2ish]

As much as I want to defend my stance that both games have similar amounts of complexity, it's not worth it. Gonna try to keep this short, I shouldn't have even written an essay length response in the first place. Nobody wants to read blocks of text on a forum. It was probably all ignored until the part where I essentially had a bullet list.

Considering how many people were complaining about 2.0's battle system being a downgrade from 1.21's, I'd say that the battle system is a lot different...

I believe you took what I said out of context. I was responding to a claim that XI had no complexity and was pointing out a few that the game has. You may not have read the first part of the post where I said the games have similar complexities (i.e. I said are relatively simple) and have very different pace of battle mechanics. But I suppose that's my fault for making blocks of text. I didn't expect response to the latter portion without reference to the former portion of what was written for some reason.

And just because this irked me: Yes, I could have pointed out that WHM (my main XIV job) and SCH use of cleric stance to compare it with how Scholar works in XI, but I chose not to thinking it wouldn't need to be said because I thought it was an obvious parallel. It's why I used it as an example.

Now that that's out of the way, I think I'm done with this thread lol. Arguing topics like this is very subjective and this is the internet.

[atomicdeath]

It takes time for things to be developed. That's why.

been about 4 years now. This games direction is pretty much set in stone.

Casual duty finder theme park with a bunch of one shot mechanics and a gear treadmill.