Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Gilthas]

LFFXI is definitely a more complex game. Has myriad of jobs and options. With one BIG HUGE glaring flaws, the old team cannot balance the jobs properly, and the new team is struggling very hard to improve all the "forgotten" jobs such as Dragoon, Summoner, Beastmaster, Red Mage, Ninja, Dark Knight, Thief, and yes, like the OP mentioned, Puppetmaster. All these "exciting jobs" you want to add in FF14 are considered trash useless jobs in FFXI. Endgame in FFXI is pretty much boiled down to Paladin, White Mage, Scholar, Monk, Samurai, Ranger, Bard, and Corsair. Both new jobs such as Rune Fencer and Geomancer are deemed a waste of party slot, useless, and just not as useful as the Bard, White Mage, Monk, Samurai, Ranger set up.

They actually made Ranger a desired job again? I still remember the great Ranger nerf that led most of the Ranger population to bury their bows/xbows/guns.

[Redemption]

And someone just before you said it's the worst thing since Abyssea. It's amazing how polarized folks can be about these two games. The big barrier ended up being the game client. I may give it another go next week, but the thing I remember most about finally giving up on trying to make it work was opening XIV and launching without any additional effort on my end. Still, threads like this do make it intriguing, and anyone who played during the glory days still gets that XI "itch" every now and again...

Thanks for the response!

Note that this is from luvbunny, an avid forum goer on the official ffxi forums who for years complained about how they didnt like things in ffxi.

Here is the part you need to read from luvbunny to know if you want to try it or not "Updates every months that changed the game in the direction of FF14" its as simple as that. FFXI isn't FFXI anymore, its a mutated half ffxiv cripple.

If thats something you wan't then I guess go for it, I am just trying to help you stay informed.

[Archadius]

And someone just before you said it's the worst thing since Abyssea. It's amazing how polarized folks can be about these two games. The big barrier ended up being the game client. I may give it another go next week, but the thing I remember most about finally giving up on trying to make it work was opening XIV and launching without any additional effort on my end. Still, threads like this do make it intriguing, and anyone who played during the glory days still gets that XI "itch" every now and again...

Thanks for the response!

I'm in the same group lol. I'm seriously considering taking a peek soon. If I can get a free weekend to check it out that's even better. Even if I can't sort out this "PlayOnline account transfer", I'd consider making a new character just to check the game out again ^_^

[DefendPopPunk]

I fear that people are so consumed with thinking outside the box, that they're leaving the very stadium of thought that the game was designed within.

The stadium of thought that this game was designed from would have to be microscopic if you're saying that added complexity in the form of pet jobs such as pup would lead you to believe it's too much. It's funny that you mention a system too complex being written for gamepad users, yet the OP's example was from a game that had primarily PS2 users that apparently did fine with a complex pet job system using gamepads. I get that some requests seem outrageous when they seem to deviate far from what we've come to expect of FFXIV, but without those requests and really seeing what the devs can really do with them, how will we know just how far this game can go in terms of complex and rewarding gameplay? Yes, we all differ in our perception of complex and rewarding, but I think you can get the point.

[Souljacker]

The stadium of thought that this game was designed from would have to be microscopic if you're saying that added complexity in the form of pet jobs such as pup would lead you to believe it's too much. It's funny that you mention a system too complex being written for gamepad users, yet the OP's example was from a game that had primarily PS2 users that apparently did fine with a complex pet job system using gamepads.

It's not just him, though. I remember a quote someone posted from Yoshi-P himself that echoed the same sentiment. It was regarding making Summoner more complex in terms of pet use and the fear was that if the job was challenging, people would find it too difficult. I think that some are actually doing SE a disservice for suggesting that they aren't capable of designing an experience that can be challenging yet work under the constraints of a Console\Gamepad.

Ps2 "limitations" barrier was broken multiple times over the years, if anyone has the talent to shoehorn an experience onto a playstation, it's definitely SE.

[DefendPopPunk]

I'm in the same group lol. I'm seriously considering taking a peek soon. If I can get a free weekend to check it out that's even better. Even if I can't sort out this "PlayOnline account transfer", I'd consider making a new character just to check the game out again ^_^

They're actually having a free week campaign starting the 10th. Too bad I am already a subscriber, I want a free week :-P

[MageBlack]

This is X not Y is a terrible reason for not adding in interesting mechanics/depth to the game.
Seriously people who reply like this are stupid.

There is a huge outcry by lots of people for more depth in all areas of the game, from gear, to jobs, to the open world, to monster AI. BUT NOPE THIS IS XIV SO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT NOT AT ALL XIV DOESN'T ACCOMMODATE TO CHANGE OR CHOICES FOR THE PLAYER.

Hey man, I think baseball would be much better if they added full contact to the sport. Allow the players to keep the bat when they run the bases and give all the players on the field body armor! It would add much more depth and skill to try and avoid getting hit by the player and catch a ball in full plate armor. and dont say my idea is stupid just because "This is baseball, not X" because this would add interesting depth/mechanics to the game! That and I might actually start to watch baseball because currently I am not interested in it so if the MLB want to actually get some hardcore fans they need to add this in the game. Oh and let them use steroids. have a separate league where people are allowed to juice so we can see how far we can push the human potential!

[Urielparadox]

They're actually having a free week campaign starting the 10th. Too bad I am already a subscriber, I want a free week :-P

You do get a free week. Your bill should be 1 week off in cycle after that, just like what happens in 14 on the free log in.

I read all your post b4 I posted OP. You said why can't we have x custimization. The reality is the custimization never exsisted, all those parts, just made the A I preform faster, and more reactive, instead of lvlin with you, basically you were upgrading you auto to work better. However other pets in the game already behaved better then the automatons. We are actually seeing this system to contol your automaton being used on ninjas with mudras. Mudras work similar to the way maneuvers worked in 11. If you played 11 you would have seen this already. However you were never customizing your auto. You where just slowely making it behave how all the other AI's behave. Pup came in 5+ years after the game started, of course the figured out more advanced methods by 5yrs later Summoner already can control there petc more from launch then 11 players could for the first 5 years, also we are only at lvl 50, 50 was the first lvl cap in 11. When the first increase to 75 came, every job changed drastically they all actually became their jobs from 50-60. I'm anticipating the exact thing to happen in 14. Hell several jobs change the way they play completely in 14 once you you get your lvl 44 abilities and 45 skill, Blm for instance. So if in 6 lvl and 1 skill can bc change a job up a lot just imagine 10 lvl and 2 new skills.

[Hyrist]

The stadium of thought that this game was designed from would have to be microscopic if you're saying that added complexity in the form of pet jobs such as pup would lead you to believe it's too much. It's funny that you mention a system too complex being written for gamepad users, yet the OP's example was from a game that had primarily PS2 users ...

I was baiting that reply. Because if we are designing puppetmaster, or any other class based off FFXI mechanics, we have to keep some things in mind.

First off, FFXI was a menu-based MMO, verses a Hotbar based we have now. Much of what made FFXI workable with a controller, was the extensive Macro writing on behalf of the players that made the game functional for them. There was much, much legwork required to play the game adequately, and much of it is not even possible in FFXIV, such as Gear Swapping.

We also have to keep in mind that the mechanics of FFXI appealed to a highly niche audience. The amount of intricacy of the class would likely have to be tuned to to audience this game is targeting, rather than a simple transposition of concept. You could bleed far more players than you retain if you cause the gameplay to shift to a level of being so obtrusive that it raises the barrier for entry.

Additionally, the pacing of the game was much, much slower, allowing more methodical methods to be used, and fit with the theme of the game. In similar respects, look at how the concept of Ninja was created. 3 Runes, that in various combination, creates different attacks - rather than a large spell list. Complexity through simplicity. I can see Puppetmaster working in similar methods, with fewer parts and components to overwhem a player with.

However, certain marrying of concepts have at their base line come with pretty bad consequences - a clear example of matters is how Hunts (open world competitive content) was implemented and the fallout that is still occurring on that as they continually adjust it.

So caution, more caution then they have displayed, I feel, is warranted when pitching and handling these ideas.

[DefendPopPunk]

You do get a free week. Your bill should be 1 week off in cycle after that, just like what happens in 14 on the free log in.

Hmm didn't know that. Thanks!