Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Kyriea]

People are so short-minded in thinking that taking anything from XI will ruin the game. The combat system is a lot faster and the levelling up process is a lot more streamlined/quicker. The rest of the content in XI was very well detailed and thought out, and imo the endgame was a hell of a lot more fun. It was somewhat of a grind, yes, but I would prefer a grind I enjoy over some of the mind numbing grinds in XIV.

XIV is a great game, don't get me wrong. I do love it and no I don't want a remake of XI. I do however think that if you combined the good ideas from XI and the combat/gameplay of XIV there is huge potential. Unfortunately SE won't implement anything from XI when people cannot see the good points, and sadly the majority of people who slate XI never played it or never got past level 50.

[cryptic_angel]

Skill, Depth, & Complexity < Casual Players & New Players

This has been Yoshi's modus operandi and he has confirmed it several times in regards to classes as simple as red mage. That is why current jobs in this game have such simple rotations.

If we ever see puppet master, it will lack much of the depth that it had in ff11.

As someone has already stated this, I will keep it short and sweet: if a mouth-breather can't play the class, it's not gonna happen.

[saeedaisspecial]

Hey man, I think baseball would be much better if they added full contact to the sport. Allow the players to keep the bat when they run the bases and give all the players on the field body armor! It would add much more depth and skill to try and avoid getting hit by the player and catch a ball in full plate armor. and dont say my idea is stupid just because "This is baseball, not X" because this would add interesting depth/mechanics to the game! That and I might actually start to watch baseball because currently I am not interested in it so if the MLB want to actually get some hardcore fans they need to add this in the game. Oh and let them use steroids. have a separate league where people are allowed to juice so we can see how far we can push the human potential!

Changing the entire game of baseball vs implementing a job/design choice which would add minor complexity to a small portion of the game.
Terrible analogy.

[Alavastre]

My hope is that they do add more varied classes/roles when 3.0 hits. I really want a Support slot, that deals with buffs/defbuffs, damage mitigation and heals. Stuff like that. Make things a bit more interesting than the trilogy of DPS, Tank and Healer.

Time will tell, but I think the basis is in place. And I too hope they stretch their wings a bit.

[Yamimarik]

You act like I wouldn't want ffxi features in ffxiv. You clearly lack reading comprehension if you thought my post was negative towards ffxiv in any way. Anyways after a few lines.. All I see is someone going off on a huge rant AFTER FAILING to comprehend my post. So I aint reading your WALL OF TEXT. Have a good day. Buh-bye

Clearly you're the one who lacks reading comprehension... that and you seem to be putting words in my mouth.
I never said it was negative, I just said your "argument" of the two games comparison just wasn't that strong, nor everyone's opinion on the subject.

But way to act mature about what I said, and jumping to conclusions before actually... reading. Not a big fan of hypocrisy.

[Gilthas]

Skill, Depth, & Complexity < Casual Players & New Players

This has been Yoshi's modus operandi and he has confirmed it several times in regards to classes as simple as red mage. That is why current jobs in this game have such simple rotations.

If we ever see puppet master, it will lack much of the depth that it had in ff11.

As someone has already stated this, I will keep it short and sweet: if a mouth breather can't play the class, it's not gonna happen.

*rolls eyes*

"Mouth-breethers" as you call them, could play all of FFXI's jobs too. A lot of you are really over-estimating the complexity of FFXI when you call the rotations in XIV simple in comparison. Do you guys remember your rotations in XI? Mine consisted of mostly waiting for my TP to reach 100 so I could use Rampage.

[cryptic_angel]

*rolls eyes*

"Mouth-breethers" as you call them, could play all of FFXI's jobs too. A lot of you are really over-estimating the complexity of FFXI when you call the rotations in XIV simple in comparison. Do you guys remember your rotations in XI? Mine consisted of mostly waiting for my TP to reach 100 so I could use Rampage.

you're cherry picking, puppet master was not a melee job that just spammed skill chains. It could tank, heal, and dps.

Yes, Yoshi has stated he wants to keep the game simple for players who are newer to the genre. He gave this very reason as to why we can't have red mage at this time. You should check your facts before you respond.

[Estellios]

Puppetmaster was not anywhere near as amazing as you imagine it to be. It was incredibly cumbersome and customizing the AI wasn't anything amazing and mixing the different frame types just left you with a subpar puppet. And you can bet your ass that there was optimal setups that people stuck with. I loved the hell out of Blue mage in 11 but it had the same problem too, you could do a lot of stuff but being able to do any of it in a decent capacity was a struggle.

And don't get me started on Overloading which is a mechanic that is so terribly thought out that I believe gear nowadays in FF11 just makes it practically impossible to get it anymore.

I enjoyed PUP though but it was more due to the novelty and aesthetic of the job because for whatever reason I find it fun to work together with the AI. I wouldn't have shed a tear if they just gave us the 3 set frame types with preset skills as it would have cut out a lot of the bloat (and potential millions of gil for the expensive parts) while not hurting the actual gameplay of the job in my eyes. Hell it probably would have made it easier to balance and figure out how to improve it.

[Hyrist]

I see we are still dealing with the same prejudices on both sides of the argument.

We need to, collectively, as a whole, remember that we all have the interest of the game's health and well being, as well as our own entertainment, in mind.


When a player is adverse to implement elements from a game, the most common example here is FFXI, it is out of concern that the implementation of that would be harmful to the environment, not from outright repulsion of it. For every experience provided, there are thousands, if not millions of eyes upon the content. Everyone is going to have differing experiences.

For example, I detest, with a severe passion, FFXI's endgame. The concepts of it were, in my view, poorly implemented and highly deplorable. It was overly drawn out, required a number of participants that was bothersome to gather, and bred many unhealthy community situations, usually because of the level of conformity it required.

In the faster-paced game of FFXIV, we already have difficulties with 24 people raids in things such as Crystal Tower. Imagine, if you would, how that would go with 72?

So when working on these ideas, caution is warranted. Not all people remember those days as fondly. Hopefully the developers take these things in mind and, if they do take inspiration, try to work out the kinks a bit so that it works with this game environment more and are more enjoyable for the whole of the audience that is here.

[saeedaisspecial]

you're cherry picking, puppet master was not a melee job that just spammed skill chains. It could tank, heal, and dps.

Yes, Yoshi has stated he wants to keep the game simple for players who are newer to the genre. He gave this very reason as to why we can't have red mage at this time. You should check your facts before you respond.

So.
Some jobs in XI were playable by "mouth breathers".
Others weren't.

What's wrong with a similar style here where we get a job that actually involves a decision making process? Heaven forbid someone actually has to think, if it isn't available to 100% of the population it shouldn't be added!
Better remove Coil, Extremes, and anything else a "mouth breather" can't do while we're at it.