Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Tsun-Tsun]

Actually that's the thing, this whole issue with sands and The Hunt affects the balance of the game which in turn affects everyone therefore your comparison is null and void.

This isn't a PvP based game, the gear in question isn't PvP based, nor does it magically make non-raiders do 9999 damage.
People who quit your statics/DF to hunt vs raiding aren't people you hardcore raiders want in your party to begin with since raids requires more dedication than hunting.
Non-raiders aren't going to become hardcore static group raiders because they have il110 gear now, but some will try to raid increasing the community.
I don't see how it's magically going to break the balance of a mainly PvE game where the best looking/in slot gear is still dropped in a raid.
I won't deny that hunts are poorly implemented but the idea behind it is still valid. Just the idea of "breaking balance" is, no offense, laughable.

[Grizzlebeard]

Non-raiders aren't going to become hardcore static group raiders because they have il110 gear now, but some will try to raid increasing the community.

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

[Felessan]

A figure which is not needed outside of t9. Thus obtaining said BiS means you miss out on a lot of additional, more beneficial stats due to stacking excessive accuracy. Also the difference in BiS 110 and non Bis 110 is minimal at best.

BiS is not about accuracy, but about desired stats in general. It may or may not include accuracy. For bards for example BiS is stacking crit/det over skillspeed and going with "just soldiery" gives you excessive 150 skillspeed over BiS setup, which not only drops your damage, but also leads to insane TP consumption.

[SinisterJoint]

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

Sure, some people may feel that way. The REAL issue is that they are so easy to obtain. Nobody should be able to get 7 sands in less than a week. NOBODY, not raiders not casuals, not anyone. It's top ilvl gear.

There should have been a weekly lockout on them 1 per week (1 oil and 1 sand respectively)

When you see hunting people obtaining sands and oils faster than the end game content can provide, you know there was a mistake. Too late to fix it now though, the damage is done already.

[Zarzak]

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

And evidently the non raid crowd will be upset if they can't be snowflakes too.

Funny how that statement works both ways isn't it?

I have a simple solutions for crying elitists: Stop being so exclusive and condescending to others who have not completed the raid yet = profit for everyone.

^ see above or I'll make it easy.

"I have a simple solutions (there shouldn't be an "s" there btw) for crying casuals: Stop being so entitled and envious to (of) others who have put in the time and energy to complete the raid(s) and instead get the gear for the level of play you are at = profit for everyone"

The term raider in this game is more a catch-all for someone who lives on the game so you could equally use "hardcore" or "no-lifer" as a tag although I appreciate that is a slight over-generalisation because there are people who raid and do so on a restricted timeframe but let's not delude ourselves, most hardcores spend every available waking hour on this game. For them to then suddenly have the one defining aspect of their lives trivialised by "filthy entitled casuals" is the continually burning core of this whole thread.

The sad fact is, ever since Blizzard opened up MMOs to the globe the clock started ticking down on the genre's demise. The current state of this game only evidences that fact. Which is why, all poking fun aside, I struggle to get as bent out of shape by these games now as I once did when I can see the direction they're all heading inexorably toward.

Hardcore or no-lifer? Raiding is literally the least time consuming activity in this game. Takes more time to cap soldiery than it does to raid since we get NO CONTENT.

You know who I see spending every available waking hour on this game? The people doing hunts. I'm in 2 (I know of 4) full 128 man linkshells. 90% of them are casuals who suddenly can get raid gear by clicking on a <pos> and following the crowd.

S ranks dieing at 5 am on a week day? Damn sure it isn't any of the raiders I know.. we have these things called jobs.

Your 2nd paragraph is interesting. Because you agree but your just going to lay down and die? How about actively trying to help make a change so MMOs aren't dead in the next 10 years. The Wildstar guys are trying (I think the game looks dumb as hell graphically but at least they are trying to change the MMO's current design of "pander to the lowest common denominator at every turn")

Put a cap on allied seals (1 gear-enhancing item per week) -> problem mostly solved

Except hunts DROP the logs (worth 250 seals) so this wouldn't actually solve anything.

Do people just go around examining other's and evaluate their worth by comparing a gearscore? That sounds like an awful existence.

Then tell the people crying they can't get ilvl 110 without raiding that. Because that's the only reason were in this situation and why were going down the road where they may as well just remove raid content and call it a day.

Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn.

Have you looked at the screen shots or read anything about it or are you just following propoganda? That addon shows nothing more than what is within draw distance (aka if your in a flat expanse the furthest mob you can see anyway). I have found plenty of hunts simply by running around doing my animus book killing. And when there are 500+ people running circles....... Yea it isn't hard.

[SendohJin]

And evidently the non raid crowd will be upset if they can't be snowflakes too.

Funny how that statement works both ways isn't it?

no, it doesn't.

non-raid people are okay if everyone is i110.

only people like you are not okay with everyone being i110.

a snowflake implies uniqueness, if the non-raid people is okay with everyone being the same, they are not upset that they can't be snowflakes. they are upset they can't be the same as everyone else who plays.

being upset at not being equal is not the same as being upset at not being different.

your logic is so bad.

[Dwill]

You really need to come up with some new material.

Because you've done such a good job at proving your points so far using fallacies which gives your arguement so much weight!

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

You really should read the thread at some point instead of going with your preconceived opinion.

This isn't a PvP based game, the gear in question isn't PvP based, nor does it magically make non-raiders do 9999 damage.
People who quit your statics/DF to hunt vs raiding aren't people you hardcore raiders want in your party to begin with since raids requires more dedication than hunting.
Non-raiders aren't going to become hardcore static group raiders because they have il110 gear now, but some will try to raid increasing the community.
I don't see how it's magically going to break the balance of a mainly PvE game where the best looking/in slot gear is still dropped in a raid.
I won't deny that hunts are poorly implemented but the idea behind it is still valid. Just the idea of "breaking balance" is, no offense, laughable.

Do you know what I find laughable ? The fact that you think that the balance in a game is just PvP or damage. I've given an explanation in my previous post on how this affects PvE content as a whole.

And no offense meant but as someone who has already gotten 3 sands in less than a week and a half since this has been released, your opinion and stance on the whole topic since seems really biased as you stand to lose your free gear source by abusing a broken system.

You mean like they already did? Unless you forgot, the max ilvl of gear for patch 2.0-2.1 was 90 (sans weapons). In 2.2, the new tomestone gear was released and was 10 levels about that, with an upgrade 10 levels above also. So this hypothetical situation you're afraid of has already occurred and has not destroyed the game, so what is your argument exactly?

Did you actually read the whole thing ?

Here it is explained, in simpler terms:

2.0 = i90 tome gear
2.2 = i100 tome gear
2.4= (hypothetical) i110 gear

Now, if everyone has i110 by then, tome gear will be useless on release, therefore requiring an upgraded ilvl of 20 instead of 10 on the tome gear. This has never happened before.

[Grizzlebeard]

Because you've done such a good job at proving your points so far using fallacies which gives your arguement so much weight!

Oh, I see your misunderstanding. My initial response was simply to mock your stance not to give credibility to your opinion. Many other people in this thread have argued my viewpoint perfectly well already. The fact you choose to discount their views is beside the point, I have no expectation or desire to "win you over" your continued angsty responses are just enjoyable to read for now.

[Dwill]

Oh, I see your misunderstanding. My initial response was simply to mock your stance not to give credibility to your opinion. Many other people in this thread have argued my viewpoint perfectly well already. The fact you choose to discount their views is beside the point, I have no expectation or desire to "win you over" your continued angsty responses are just enjoyable to read for now.

Since many have argued your viewpoint, maybe you'd like to like to at least link to 1 post that made any form of logical argument. Not 2 or 3 or 4, just 1. So far from everything you've posted in this thread, you've just ignored every point that came through that made sure to explain well and clear on how this wasn't just about raiding yet decided to just skip over all of those to come back to your preconceived idea that this thread was all about the evil raiders. Quite the hypocritical stance, really.

Sure, some people may feel that way. The REAL issue is that they are so easy to obtain. Nobody should be able to get 7 sands in less than a week. NOBODY, not raiders not casuals, not anyone. It's top ilvl gear.

There should have been a weekly lockout on them 1 per week (1 oil and 1 sand respectively)

When you see hunting people obtaining sands and oils faster than the end game content can provide, you know there was a mistake. Too late to fix it now though, the damage is done already.

Agreed on the hwole thngs except that since this hasn't been two weeks yet, I still think the damage can be minimize by actually putting a restiction comes next maintenance.

[Grizzlebeard]

this wasn't just about raiding yet decided to just skip over all of those to come back to your preconceived idea that this thread was all about the evil raiders. Quite the hypocritical stance, really.

The term raider in this game is more a catch-all for someone who lives on the game so you could equally use "hardcore" or "no-lifer" as a tag although I appreciate that is a slight over-generalisation because there are people who raid and do so on a restricted timeframe but let's not delude ourselves, most hardcores spend every available waking hour on this game. For them to then suddenly have the one defining aspect of their lives trivialised by "filthy entitled casuals" is the continually burning core of this whole thread.

The sad fact is, ever since Blizzard opened up MMOs to the globe the clock started ticking down on the genre's demise. The current state of this game only evidences that fact. Which is why, all poking fun aside, I struggle to get as bent out of shape by these games now as I once did when I can see the direction they're all heading inexorably toward.