Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Velhart]

So you value a number on your character sheet more than the experience you have. That's fine, but also doesn't explain why somebody else's number matters so much to you. I stand by my previous comment. Comparing numbers on character sheets to determine worth sounds awful.

Have you never played MMO's? This has been a thing since Dungeons & Dragons table top games.

I didn't say this wasn't the reason, I said that it was an assumption. In this case one made by the development team. Where is their source? The fact that people were not running coil has no indication of WHY they weren't running coil. They guessed, plain and simple. They believed the reward to be the reason, so they changed it based on that assumption. I'd love to see how many MORE people began doing coil merely because a new i95 weapon was put in there. Ones that weren't doing coil prior to that, and did so ONLY because of the new weapon. I bet that number is insignificant.

Don't get me wrong, I think they botched the implementation of hunts, but not because people can get upgrades there. I don't care where people get upgrades, chasing numbers is not why I play games.

I can't speak on behalf of the entire community, but I know in my team at least, before they upgraded the weapons, half of my team had little incentive to push harder in Coils since they had ilvl90 weapons already. The drive and momentum definitely kicked up a notch when they were upgraded to ilvl95. People like the best, not simply alternatives.

While you may not care, there are a ton of players who do care about "chasing numbers". Its a standard mind set in end game MMO's. If they make it that gear is much more easier to obtain than it was in a previous patch without drastically better alternatives (like from 2.1 to 2.2), then that is simply bad design. Its kind of a middle finger to those who worked hard to get ilvl110, now everyone is getting up to that point and there isn't even better gear to aim towards for the ilvl110 player. Its an understatement that 2.3 is more of a catching up patch, but people shouldn't be jumping numbers this high only a little over a week of patch. Like I said once, I am just as guilty getting three Sands to BiS my MNK, but doesn't make the system any less corrupt.

[L-D-Omlette]

Have you never played MMO's? This has been a thing since Dungeons & Dragons table top games.

Every game I have played was for the experience had and the enjoyment of said game. The journey is as important as the destination.

I can't speak on behalf of the entire community, but I know in my team at least, before they upgraded the weapons, half of my team had little incentive to push harder in Coils since they had ilvl90 weapons already. The drive and momentum definitely kicked up a notch when they were upgraded to ilvl95. People like the best, not simply alternatives.

Your static would not fall into the set of players I described. If the assumption is that the weapons were upgraded to get people to go into coil, your team is outside of the group for which the upgrade was implemented. If you are counting your group among the reason that the weapons were improved then it wasn't implemented to get more players into coil. If the consideration was made for teams like yours, then they were upgraded to make raiders feel like they had a reason to raid. Those are very different reasons. It means that the upgrade was for raiders, not to bait non-raiders into raiding.

While you may not care, there are a ton of players who do care about "chasing numbers". Its a standard mind set in end game MMO's. If they make it that gear is much more easier to obtain than it was in a previous patch without drastically better alternatives (like from 2.1 to 2.2), then that is simply bad design. Its kind of a middle finger to those who worked hard to get ilvl110, now everyone is getting up to that point and there isn't even better gear to aim towards for the ilvl110 player. Its an understatement that 2.3 is more of a catching up patch, but people shouldn't be jumping numbers this high only a little over a week of patch. Like I said once, I am just as guilty getting three Sands to BiS my MNK, but doesn't make the system any less corrupt.

Then you must have hated 2.0 to 2.1, where philosophy rained from the sky and myth cap was raised. i90 was much easier to obtain and there was no drastically better alternatives. This is the patch cycle, and it isn't like this was sprung on people last minute. It makes me wonder why the raiding community bothers to sub for more than a month at a time and only when a new raid patch gets released.

Also, I don't have a problem with people chasing numbers. What I don't understand is why those that do care so much about what someone else's numbers are. The only reason I can think of is that they want to compare the two and use it as evidence to say "I'm better, because my number is higher."

People like job metaphors, so I'll use one now. Do you compare your salary to your friends and say "I'm better because I make more." My response to that: "Then Donald Sterling is better than you..."

[Exstal]

So you value a number on your character sheet more than the experience you have. That's fine, but also doesn't explain why somebody else's number matters so much to you. I stand by my previous comment. Comparing numbers on character sheets to determine worth does not sound like fun to me

The experience is only fun for the first time you do it (except Titan Extreme, which is hilarious every single time I do it to see someone get landslided off). If I've said that their number bothers me, I've gotten over it. Nearly or full i110 won't cure stupid, so it will no longer bother me.

[SirenRanger]

I have a simple solutions for crying elitists: Stop being so exclusive and condescending to others who have not completed the raid yet = profit for everyone.

[Nabian]

People keep mentioning the argument that players will continue to run content regardless of gear rewards.

However I don't feel this is the case. Maybe initially but over time the rewards are what peak players interest. Sure the first one or two times you enter the dungeon it's going to be for fun. After that unless you just REALLY REALLY enjoy the dungeon...your going to only go in there when you want something. I know many static groups who cleared Ramuh Ex once for the clear...and have no intentions of ever going back in because there is no reward.

[Velhart]

Every game I have played was for the experience had and the enjoyment of said game. The journey is as important as the destination.

Experience can only be enjoyed but so much. It eventually goes to wanting to set new goals for yourself, which gearing up is the common next goal.

Then you must have hated 2.0 to 2.1, where philosophy rained from the sky and myth cap was raised. i90 was much easier to obtain and there was no drastically better alternatives. This is the patch cycle, and it isn't like this was sprung on people last minute. It makes me wonder why the raiding community bothers to sub for more than a month at a time and only when a new raid patch gets released.

People did not get ilvl90 gear no where near the speed that people are getting ilvl110 now. Myth was still capped regardless of the cap increasing. ilvl100 gear accumulated over 2.2 can now be upgraded to ilvl110 in a very short time due to the hunts. There are already reports of people getting 6-7 Sands of Time and the patch is only little over a week old. In 2.1, you were still very limited and still took time to get gear. Yes it was easier, but was still balanced at a steady pace. Way it is right now is borderline chaotic.

Also, I don't have a problem with people chasing numbers. What I don't understand is why those that do care so much about what someone else's numbers are. The only reason I can think of is that they want to compare the two and use it as evidence to say "I'm better, because my number is higher."

Its called being competitive, its human nature. I am always comparing myself to others because when someone is performing higher than me, it influences me to go back and see what I can do to improve myself. Its beneficial to both myself and my party. Its fine if you are willing to settle with what you have, but who is going to get picked, the guy who is constantly improving himself, or the person who just settled with what they have because it is "good enough"?

People like job metaphors, so I'll use one now. Do you compare your salary to your friends and say "I'm better because I make more." My response to that: "Then Donald Sterling is better than you..."

That is not really a good analogy to describe the argument. If we have the same job/role and he is making more than me, then I need to go back and find out why he is making more and continue to improve myself to reach the same level he is. He worked hard to make more than me. Believe it or not, there is even competition in the work place.

[L-D-Omlette]

[...]see what I can do to improve myself[...]

I am sad that it takes someone else to inspire or motivate this desire in oneself. That is the crux of the problem, I refer back to the CK image. This motivation should not be based on some comparison of ones self to another. It would imply that once they perceive that they are "the best" they have no more room for improvement. One should always strive to be better, even if they think they are the best.

[Fendred]

For the people who are mentioning individuals who are getting full i110 in under 2 weeks, keep in mind that we're talking about a very small segment of players who are capitalizing on the weakness of the hunt system. Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn. I have a feeling that if the system were working as Yoshi intended it to, this would not be happening, but because people were clamouring for unrestricted, open world end-game content, Yoshi is now dealing with the brave new world (or old world, depending on your view point) of open world content.

The most immediate solution would be to completely revamp it to a hunt system more like from FFXII, where you get a bill for a particular mark and then you follow a list of clues to hunt down said mark, with the entire affair acting in all respects equivalent to a levequest.

[Eissels]

Its called being competitive, its human nature. I am always comparing myself to others because when someone is performing higher than me, it influences me to go back and see what I can do to improve myself. Its beneficial to both myself and my party. Its fine if you are willing to settle with what you have, but who is going to get picked, the guy who is constantly improving himself, or the person who just settled with what they have because it is "good enough"?

I'm going to snip this part out, because I have a really big problem with this statement. Competition is good. Competition is great. It pushes you to be better, to pull higher numbers, to streamline and optimize your rotation and learn mechanics.

What you're talking about is not competition. That random guy who's i108 but hasn't even entered second coil? You're not competing with him. Nothing about him is pushing you to better yourself, he's not even related to you in ANY way. He's a distant entity who you will never encounter, and, even if you do, if he wasn't in second coil and you were, you're probably going to be performing better than him anyway.

What you're talking about is ePeen. You want to be viewed as higher tiered than the other guy, which is something entirely seperate from good, healthy competition. You're not kidding anyone by trying to say "But teh randoms make me want to better myself!"

[Velhart]

I'm going to snip this part out, because I have a really big problem with this statement. Competition is good. Competition is great. It pushes you to be better, to pull higher numbers, to streamline and optimize your rotation and learn mechanics.

What you're talking about is not competition. That random guy who's i108 but hasn't even entered second coil? You're not competing with him. Nothing about him is pushing you to better yourself, he's not even related to you in ANY way. He's a distant entity who you will never encounter, and, even if you do, if he wasn't in second coil and you were, you're probably going to be performing better than him anyway.

What you're talking about is ePeen. You want to be viewed as higher tiered than the other guy, which is something entirely seperate from good, healthy competition. You're not kidding anyone by trying to say "But teh randoms make me want to better myself!"

Its called subtle competition. So you are telling me if you are in T8 and there is another MNK there around your ilvl doing much higher than you, you have no influence to figure out why or want to improve yourself? No one is calling out the person like "Haw haw I am doing better than you.". If I see someone doing better than me, I might ask what he does to achieve those numbers. I am not directly competing with him, but it is competition in my head to out DPS him. When I figure out how to go to his numbers or better, I found a way to improve myself, which ultimately made things better for me. I have never once in my MMO career have I used an "ePeen" attitude at someone. Only time it is appropriate to call someone out is if they are doing drastically lower than the required DPS for said fight.

Also, what does it matter if it is someone random or someone I know? If a random person is doing better than me, then I want to know what he is doing to perform better than me. I take the feedback and use it to improve myself, what does it matter where I get it from? Guides, YouTube videos, in game experience, it doesn't matter. Information is information.

Can call it out any way you like, but it improves myself and ultimately my group, who appreciate my efforts at the end of the day as I do for them.