The tanking shortage reasons

[Yumi_umi]

Also take into consideration that there are 2 tanking classes, 2 healer classes, and 5 dps classes i think.
So u r limited to only 2 melee tank classes while dps have 5 choices to choose from, like going from melee (Mnk) to range (Smn)
Or just rolling on bard cuz u like the high mobility advantage.
So imo it just boils down to how dedicated tanks are, some may give up and roll on dps or healer
But probably dps cuz
1) they r tired of having a lot of responsibilty
2) getting blamed individually,
Dps usually gets blamed as a whole group (i.e dps is too low)
Vs. (MT failing/ OT failing)
3) it got boring
4) just because.

[Kitru]

Square had the right idea in introducing additional rewards for tanks to entice them into duty finder groups, but the rewards are frankly insulting. All they need to do is increase the extra gil earned to a respectable amount and the tank problem in Duty finder will go away.

Providing more gil wouldn't really do it because the value of a given quantity of gil shifts greatly with the current economic state of the game. Right now, there's more gil in the economy but the stuff you can spend it on isn't that stellar (re: crafted gear) so gil doesn't really do much; back at release, gil was worth a crapton because people would spend 100k+ on crafted gear. What the devs need to do is have the needed adventurer bonus actually be something comparatively unique and/or rare: random pets, rare crafting materials, DoH/DoL gear, random vanity items when the system is added, random (high grade) consumables, etc. You can get gil by doing pretty much anything and, honestly, the needed adventurer bonus would need to be almost obscene to actually make it an option that actually attracts attention (you get 10-20k each run); the needed adventurer bonus needs to provide stuff that is hard or annoying to get in any other way and provides a method for acquiring it more easily.

[Bardo]

Right now, there's more gil in the economy but the stuff you can spend it on isn't that stellar (re: crafted gear) so gil doesn't really do much

There's higher level crafted gear coming in 2.2
Also, housing is an enormous Gil sink. With FC's spending hundreds of millions of gold on housing plots and furniture, I really don't think there's more gil in the economy now than there was before housing.

But I certainly wouldn't be opposed to more vanity rewards to drive participation such as mounts/minions either.

[juniglee]

facts

Thank you.

Don't bother arguing with this guy, he's quite convinced that Paladin (or tanks in general) are a broken class because they are not dealing Dragoon-level DPS without use of Fight or Flight/Unchained/Berserk.

[Gamemako]

http://i.imgur.com/cEIx1I4.jpg

Stop complaining.

You're including Storm's Eye debuff for the PLD, so the DPS ratios look about right. Requires that the PLD OT and WAR MT be attacking the same target and the MT be using SE/BB, meaning the opponent has no damage debuff. A good WAR has enough enmity built into Unchained/Berserk to hold aggro just fine against RoH-spamming PLD. All of this was theorycrafted in August; refer to my first post on these forums (was active on beta forums before):

Acting as DPS (i.e. when not in tanking stance), WAR delivers 154.67 potency by alternating SE and BB combos while PLD drops in 156.22 potency per second in Sword Oath due to Curtana's fast attack rate. The difference between the two acting as DPS is pretty negligible.

Numbers themselves are a bit suspect, though. I'm guessing you've omitted cooldowns here?

[SpookyGhost]

Not my own parses, see here for all the details and bickering in the comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ps_what_gives/

[Gamemako]

Not my own parses, see here for all the details and bickering in the comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ps_what_gives/

Yup, poster said it was same target, so PLD got the Storm's Eye buff as well (both tanks are Slashing damage). I don't have an Allagan Battleaxe to compare, but since I use pentamelds almost exclusively (I have i90 fending stuff that I never use), I handily crush the MT DPS number he gives. It's honestly just strange in general, because while WAR has some nice potency bonuses in Defiance, his numbers suggest that he's using the exact same rotations in and out of Defiance -- that is, he's not even using his Wrath at all, let alone unchaining the 300DPS beast every 120 seconds like he should be.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I've done it all now (that is, tank, dps, and heal), and admittedly, tanking just isn't as interesting to me. DPS is more fun to me because I personally feel like I DO need to be more mindful about what's going on around me, and not just that one thing I'm focused on. Healing is a bit of the same, with higher stakes, and oddly enough, more of a challenge (stay alive, keep them all alive, don't pull aggro from the tank, watch the aoes).

Don't get me wrong, I'll still do it for my friends if/when they need me, but I just find dpsing/healing more engaging now :P

[bokchoykn]

*snip*

You're correct in just about everything here. However, I'd like to point out a couple of things. These aren't to refute any of your points, but just to add to what you said.

• When Paladin swaps stances, it costs them two global cooldowns: One for entering Sword Oath and one for returning to Shield Oath. For Warrior, Defiance toggle is off GCD. It only costs them a chunk of their HP. They also don't interrupt combos. Warrior stance swaps are much more fluid.
  
• Vengeance can do quite a bit of damage over its 15 second duration. Its only 12.5% uptime, but every bit counts. Especially when you're getting hit by two Gaolers with Maim, Unchained and Berserk up.
  
• Don't discount the crit bonus from Wrath stacks or Internal Release. These are tiny buffs, but again, they add up.
  
• Any time Overpower or Steel Cyclone can be used profitably, Warrior also benefits here, but this is pretty needless to say.

So, while PLD DPS in Sword Oath is roughly equal to WAR DPS w/o Defiance, in real life scenarios, Warrior is going to outshine Paladin in the damage department in the long run.

[Kitru]

Vengeance can do quite a bit of damage over its 15 second duration. Its only 12.5% uptime, but every bit counts. Especially when you're getting hit by two Gaolers with Maim, Unchained and Berserk up.

The enemy auto-attack is something like once every 2.5-3 seconds or so, which means that Vengeance provides an extra 250-300 potency per target per use. Since we're not talking AoE (where WAR is obviously king due to Overpower and SC actually dealing damage), you're talking about getting an extra 5.21-6.25 potency/GCD is you're using it on cooldown (and you don't dodge any attacks and the target doesn't use any magic attacks; since Vengeance is the strongest WAR tank CD, you'd be an idiot to use it on CD just for damage). Given that a WAR can expect to deal roughly 375 pot/GCD, Vengeance on CD is going to provide you with a 1.38-1.67% increase in damage dealt.

Vengeance provides a more substantial increase to damage over the short term than it does over the long term. Over the course of a long fight, when you're using it as a tank CD rather than a damage mechanism, its contributions are virtually unnoticeable in practical/observable terms. The only time I actually use it as a pseudo-DPS CD is at the start of combat to benefit from the Wrath stack so that I can unleash Unchained>Berserk>IR 2 GCDs earlier than I would otherwise while getting an extra ~50 pot/GCD for the opening.

Don't discount the crit bonus from Wrath stacks or Internal Release. These are tiny buffs, but again, they add up.

I factor those in. Using Unchained and Berserk every 120 seconds, using IR every 60 seconds (one stacking with Unchained and Berserk every 120 seconds), and assuming a ~7.5% average +crit from Wrath over time amounts to the nearly the same proportionate increase in damage as Fight or Flight (10% increase in damage over time). Fight or Flight is just *that* strong (in fact, it's the strongest DPS CD in the entire game; a lot of people who think that PLD deals terrible damage are those that don't use it every time they can).

So, while PLD DPS in Sword Oath is roughly equal to WAR DPS w/o Defiance, in real life scenarios, Warrior is going to outshine Paladin in the damage department in the long run.

That's why I said "roughly" equal. It's important to note that PLD has a crapload (silence, CD-less stun, Pacification, Cover) more utility than the WAR, which is where the damage inequality is made up from a balance perspective: WAR has better damage, but PLD has better utility.

On a relatively interesting note, a PLD in Sword Oath running with a WAR without Defiance maintaining the SE debuff actually manages better DPS than the WAR since the gap between the two is less than 10%. The attribution gets kind of funky because you have to decide whether the increase in the PLD's damage should be credited to the WAR (since they're providing the buff) or the PLD (since it wouldn't be affecting a WAR secondary tank and the WAR would be applying the debuff for themself anyways), but it's something of an interesting little factoid to bring up, especially to those people that want to complain about PLD having utterly abysmal damage regardless of their state.