The tanking shortage reasons

[bokchoykn]

DPS is the path of least resistance in MMO's. It takes more effort on the player's part as a whole to perform above average in the roles of Healer and Tank than it does to perform above average in the role of DPS. There's more things going on that you have to be on top of. There's more responsibility in the roles of Healer and Tank. There are more people that don't want that effort and responsibility than there are people that do.

Really?

I personally feel that playing DPS takes a lot more effort than Tanking or Healing in this game. I have to work a lot harder as Monk than I do with Tank or Healer. This is both in terms of execution in an actual battle and in terms of figuring out how to optimize my damage output via math and testing.

[AmyNeudaiz]

Really?

I personally feel that playing DPS takes a lot more effort than Tanking or Healing in this game. I have to work a lot harder as Monk than I do with Tank or Healer. This is both in terms of execution in an actual battle and in terms of figuring out how to optimize my damage output via math and testing.

Depends on what you're doing. Fight Turn 4 as OT, Titan EX as a Whm, or Twintania as Sch and tell me again that DPS is the hardest. DPS also have it super easy on any dungeon.

[bokchoykn]

Depends on what you're doing. Fight Turn 4 as MT, Titan EX as a Whm, or Twintania as Sch and tell me again that DPS is the hardest. DPS also have it super easy on any dungeon.

I've done every fight in the game as every role, with the exception of Twintania which I've only done as a Tank. BTW: I only have Monk as DPS so I can only speak for DPS from the perspective of one class

Melee DPS has a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling. The degree of difficulty and effort to punch and kick things is very low. The degree of difficulty to be an exceptional melee DPS and push your DPS to the maximum is much higher. I guarantee you that the number of actions performed, amount of movement, and the number thought processes a really good Monk or Dragoon has to go through over the course of a Titan EX fight is higher than WHM.

A Monk can choose not to put forth this much effort, his DPS output will suffer, and his teammates will probably not even notice and assume he did a good job because he survived the whole fight. However, a good Monk does all the little things knowing that the difference between 220 DPS and 300 DPS could be the difference between winning and losing.

You're right, though. It does depend on what you're doing.

[AmyNeudaiz]

snip

The same can generally be said about any role though. I agree, some fights are intensive on DPS knowing their stuff and performing but IMO it's like that for every role. While you can say which fight is harder on what role, no role is truly "harder" to master if that's what your point is getting at.

[bokchoykn]

The same can generally be said about any role though. I agree, some fights are intensive on DPS knowing their stuff and performing but IMO it's like that for every role. While you can say which fight is harder on what role, no role is truly "harder" to master if that's what your point is getting at.

It depends on the fight to some extent, but different roles have different skill caps. It's one thing to be able to do the minimum requirement to do a fight and it's totally something else to push the absolute limits of your class, and I feel that melee DPS has the highest skill caps in this game.

[AmyNeudaiz]

It depends on the fight to some extent, but different roles have different skill caps. It's one thing to be able to do the minimum requirement to do a fight and it's totally something else to push the absolute limits of your class, and I feel that melee DPS has the highest skill caps in this game.

I disagree with your statement mainly because IMO you can't compare the value in the highest capability of the 3 roles.

IMO what's causing the illusion is the relatively low bar to be "good" at both healer and tank roles. If you get the job done on a regular basis, you're good at the role but if you don't, you're bad. It's my opinion that the bar can go very high for both of those roles just like DPS, people just don't care much because it gets the job done and the payoff for the extra mile isn't as great as the payoff for extra DPS. (Most of the time)

[bokchoykn]

I disagree with your statement mainly because IMO you can't compare the value in the highest capability of the 3 roles.

IMO what's causing the illusion is the relatively low bar to be "good" at both healer and tank roles. If you get the job done on a regular basis, you're good at the role but if you don't, you're bad. It's my opinion that the bar can go very high for both of those roles just like DPS, people just don't care much because it gets the job done and the payoff for the extra mile isn't as great as the payoff for extra DPS. (Most of the time)

It has nothing to do with what people perceive to be good or bad. I'm strictly referring to the "skill cap". As in "how much better can you get at this class?" and "how much effort and skill is required to reach this level?" and it is in my opinion that melee DPS has the highest skill cap.

Is it necessarily important to play melee DPS at this level? Definitely not. The bosses in this game aren't terribly demanding. If Titan EX can be beaten with six people, this is pretty clear. But that's beyond the point I was trying to make, which was simply that melee DPS has the highest skill cap.

Even if they don't fall off, you just have to raise a dps at key moments, and you can make it though jail, superbomb, adds. Sure it's a risky gamble, but no getting around a healer or a tank death.

In titan ex, your dps can be double weakened, crash and burn on each stop, get raised, and still meet the standard for superbombs, jails, adds, burn. I have raised 1 dps 6 times in Titan ex and still felt like nothing was lacking as long as he died and didn't die in the right times.

Now if a healer or a tank gets a single weakness much less double weakness, might as well wipe.

And if SE fixes Auto-attack for melees, I bet you 80% of those "bad dps" becomes good over night.

All I was trying to convey was that higher DPS increases your party's margin of error and can win situations that are otherwise lost.

DPS is important and not just for meeting requirements for DPS checks.

[kukurumei]

I've done every fight in the game as every role, with the exception of Twintania which I've only done as a Tank. BTW: I only have Monk as DPS so I can only speak for DPS from the perspective of one class

Melee DPS has a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling. The degree of difficulty and effort to punch and kick things is very low. The degree of difficulty to be an exceptional melee DPS and push your DPS to the maximum is much higher. I guarantee you that the number of actions performed, amount of movement, and the number thought processes a really good Monk or Dragoon has to go through over the course of a Titan EX fight is higher than WHM.

A Monk can choose not to put forth this much effort, his DPS output will suffer, and his teammates will probably not even notice and assume he did a good job because he survived the whole fight. However, a good Monk does all the little things knowing that the difference between 220 DPS and 300 DPS could be the difference between winning and losing.

You're right, though. It does depend on what you're doing.

not really. Only twin has a harsh check due to the fact it's an i90 fight. Otherwise your dps needs to be 70-80% to brute force and 50-80% using alternate means to win.

But Melees do suffer a really huge problem not of their own doing, that is Auto-attack being stupidly hard, due to the way SE refuses to fix. A melee's AA will suffer if they are just slightly off facing target or slightly out of attack(but for some reason not skill) range.

And backpedaling is horrible if you choose to target-lock for 100% AA. <---SE refuses to fix this crap.

As a tank it's not easier though. You can't derp as a tank. It's simply being a tank. Just like a Healer can't die. DPS wil get blamed but their mistakes do not always translate to wipes. Tank/healers' do translate to wipe.

Most people just don't want that over their heads.

[bokchoykn]

not really. Only twin has a harsh check due to the fact it's an i90 fight. Otherwise your dps needs to be 70-80% to brute force and 50-80% using alternate means to win.

If you're referring to this statement: "However, a good Monk does all the little things knowing that the difference between 220 DPS and 300 DPS could be the difference between winning and losing."

Yes, it's true. One of your DPS might fall on on EX Titan, and the rest of the team has to carry the rest of the way. Being a good DPS you put out shortens the length of the fight and lets you meet the continuous DPS requirements of the fight (Gaols, Gaolers, Bomb).

My FC sells EX Primal runs and I doubt we'd be very good at it if our DPS each did 80 less than they currently do.

[kukurumei]

If you're referring to this statement: "However, a good Monk does all the little things knowing that the difference between 220 DPS and 300 DPS could be the difference between winning and losing."

Yes, it's true. One of your DPS might fall on on EX Titan, and the rest of the team has to carry the rest of the way. Being a good DPS you put out shortens the length of the fight and lets you meet the continuous DPS requirements of the fight (Gaols, Gaolers, Bomb).

Even if they don't fall off, you just have to raise a dps at key moments, and you can make it though jail, superbomb, adds. Sure it's a risky gamble, but no getting around a healer or a tank death.

In titan ex, your dps can be double weakened, crash and burn on each stop, get raised, and still meet the standard for superbombs, jails, adds, burn. I have raised 1 dps 6 times in Titan ex and still felt like nothing was lacking as long as he died and didn't die in the right times.

Now if a healer or a tank gets a single weakness much less double weakness, might as well wipe.

And if SE fixes Auto-attack for melees, I bet you 80% of those "bad dps" becomes good over night.