Tanks Who Constantly Queue and Then Withdraw Trying to Get in Progress Instances

[YuriRamona]

What don't people understand? We've already discussed a multitude of times that two separate queues wouldn't work. It'd actually slow down parties being made, and is rewarding BAD BEHAVIOR. Queue in progress is to HELP people, NOT YOURSELF. A blind queue system with the OPTION to *queue in progress* is the best answer by far. This means people will click commence either way, priority on "in progress" groups will be there, and if the tank so chooses to click the *in progress* button, they'll get in one as it opens.

I don't understand why you would not only want to take away shortcuts for players who are playing desired roles, but asking players who are selfish to abandon the duty finder.

If we are so incensed about the problem of queue fishing and long queues in general, why would we want to marginalize players who are in it for the loot (i.e. the vast majority of players)? Are we really so convinced, despite the overwhelming evidence not only in this game but other MMOs, that players are really willing to help out just for the sake of helping out?

I can't tell if you're incredibly short-sighted or just completely ignorant of the reality: either you need to cater for players in desired roles, or greatly discourage people from imbalancing the role make-up (punishing DPS, which would be incredibly unfair). Therefore, we need MORE incentives (MORE than allowing for fishing) to solve this problem.

We can't have our cake (have everyone play DPS) and eat it too (expect everything to work smoothly for DPS and punish non-DPS for expecting incentives).

This is ultimately what it boils down to. Stop blaming queue fishers for trying to reap a benefit they deserve. If you want queue fishing to stop, we need more people to stop playing DPS and start playing tanks and healers.

Stopping queue fishing is just patching up a symptom of a greater problem, which is role imbalance. We need more incentives for tanks and healers, not less.

Nope, I exclusively tank in high level dungeons, and I cherry pick/snipe my runs all the time. The only thing that is contradictory from his post is the fact that I support blind drop-ins, which I wouldn't mind, to be honest. It is a change that has to be made. The rest of his post still makes sense.

People dont run in-progress runs to help others, they do it for their own rewards. That is his major point that a lot of people fail to grasp.

Thank you, thank you. People don't seem to get that people who play tanks and healers don't just do so because it's fun (which it probably is). They do so because of shorter queue times and the possibility of quick rewards.

To be honest it wouldn't be that bad to have blind queues. But you have to make up for that lost incentive in some other way. We can solve the frustrating problem of queue fishers and cancelled queues, but if tanks and healers simply aren't queuing anymore, we need to encourage them. Your idea of satchel rewards would likely work, kind of with the duty roulette 'in-demand' role, but something more substantial besides a few hundred gil.

[necrosis]

Thank you, thank you. People don't seem to get that people who play tanks and healers don't just do so because it's fun (which it probably is). They do so because of shorter queue times and the possibility of quick rewards.

Speak for yourself and not everyone. I did not start playing WHM on day one because I thought it would mean quick queues. If I could foresee that happening I should start investing in stocks. I actually started it so I could cross-class cure to make soloing a DPS job easier. Turns out I actually liked the role (having NEVER played a mage job in any MMO before) and decided to take it to 50.

[Traek]

Nope, I exclusively tank in high level dungeons, and I cherry pick/snipe my runs all the time. The only thing that is contradictory from his post is the fact that I support blind drop-ins, which I wouldn't mind, to be honest. It is a change that has to be made. The rest of his post still makes sense.

This then flies in the face of their end result. Blind queues would stop the cherry picking, and its a proven working system in WoW that you are praising.

People dont run in-progress runs to help others, they do it for their own rewards. That is his major point that a lot of people fail to grasp.

Oh I totally agree on this, though it isn't completely true as you are talking in absolutes, and I am a straight up example (and there are others) that its not an absolute. When I check in progress I take whats available, if I'm helping a group finish that is great, if I'm starting one up that is great too. My incentive is what I joined the run in the first place for. I think tanks are certainly rare, and wouldn't be against incentive programs for people to queue as tank though, that would be smart of SE to do.

I don't understand why you would not only want to take away shortcuts for players who are playing desired roles, but asking players who are selfish to abandon the duty finder.

Whether they abandon the duty and decide to take 30min penalties is up to them. If you don't think queuing for a new run in 30mins and getting one even half way is slower then actually completing a dungeon you first get, then you'd be crazy. There shouldn't be any "shortcuts" for anyone, that isn't the design purpose of *Join in progress*, it is to get stranded groups through a dungeon.

If we are so incensed about the problem of queue fishing and long queues in general, why would we want to marginalize players who are in it for the loot (i.e. the vast majority of players)? Are we really so convinced, despite the overwhelming evidence not only in this game but other MMOs, that players are really willing to help out just for the sake of helping out?

Who said anything about marginalizing players in it for loot? Whether or not you are in it for the loot, you can earn it from where the queue places you, like everyone else. The fact is, you just want to be handed loot for being a desired job. You already receive the reward of being a desired job with instant queues. Stop acting as though blind queues will take away *in progress* groups, because it won't, and will continue to prioritize stranded groups as they come. The incentive is still there, but the ability for a selfish player to queue spam for a run they deem acceptable would not.

I can't tell if you're incredibly short-sighted or just completely ignorant of the reality: either you need to cater for players in desired roles, or greatly discourage people from imbalancing the role make-up (punishing DPS, which would be incredibly unfair). Therefore, we need MORE incentives (MORE than allowing for fishing) to solve this problem.

We can't have our cake (have everyone play DPS) and eat it too (expect everything to work smoothly for DPS and punish non-DPS for expecting incentives).

This is ultimately what it boils down to. Stop blaming queue fishers for trying to reap a benefit they deserve. If you want queue fishing to stop, we need more people to stop playing DPS and start playing tanks and healers.

Stopping queue fishing is just patching up a symptom of a greater problem, which is role imbalance. We need more incentives for tanks and healers, not less.

Again, you are assuming there is no reward for queuing as a tank, and that there is no penalty for queuing as a DD. Literally instant queues as a tank, while DD sit for literally an hour at times is plenty enough to refute that claim. I am not against other incentives to keep desired classes in queues, but being able to choose which boss you want to start at should not be one. Also, you are completely wrong in assuming tanks will stop queuing if the option of "in progress" is taken away. People are joining queues for a reason, whether it be the gear along the way, or the reward at the end (myth tomes), and that incentive never changes. Tanks still want to myth cap at the end of the week, they aren't going to magically disappear if they can't choose to start at Archeon.

[Taliph]

snip

Here is where the issue lies... Needed roles are needed throughout the dungeon, they do not deserve anything more then their fast queue times as compensation.