Battle Reform Blueprint

[Elexia]

So yeah, it's time to reimplement the FFXI Delay/DPS system!

For those that don't know, it's basically different weapon types actually behaved differently in battle.

[Teknoman]

Although I'm generally very pleased at the very specific responses to all these questions, I can't help but feel certain things like removing the stamina gauge are bascially removing the last vestiges of what makes FFXIV's combat unique from other games.

No. No. No. No needing 50 different specialized peices of gear for every individual action. Gear swapping in combat is stupid, makes no sense, and is the one thing I hate most about FFXI's system. You want the ability to have tons of situational gear in a game where inventory space is a problem already without having it? No thanks.

Im sure the battle regimens among other things will give them a unique form of combat. What other MMO has combo attacks? Anyway, im with you on the ability to switch armor or lack thereof in battle. I can understand changing equipment because "Hey this monster absorbs fire attacks?! Quick change to an ice weapon!", not constantly using equip + skill macros just to get 25 more points of damage. Just seems unnecessary to me, and then everyone ends up "needing" to have the same equipment and use the same macro setup as every other job if they want to participate in whatever high end combat activities. I'd rather the team focused on having different equipment to deal with different enemies due to absorb, weakness, strength, null, and the usual FF strategic issues when facing enemies.

So yeah, it's time to reimplement the FFXI Delay/DPS system!

For those that don't know, it's basically different weapon types actually behaved differently in battle.

Well Matsui is implementing a delay system, but its supposed to be alot faster than XI. So it'll probablly be a happy medium between XIV's fast attacks and XI's slow spaced attacks.

[Rentahamster]

it doesnt work like cooldowns,

It served the same function that a cooldown does, which is:

it ... allows you not to be constantly attacking

which is the purpose of a cooldown, and it's redundant and bad design to have them both in the game.

Whoever posted this comment knows what's up:

The battle system is compromised of two types of attacks; Turn based attacks (stamina gauge, recast, attacks whose success is determined after the hit) and action based attacks (attacks that can be dodged by moving around).
As stated previously, the stamina gauge is scheduled to be removed. We believe that all the other issues mentioned do not detract from the game significantly.

This weird amalgamation of a battle system we have now is the result of this mish mash. Now, properly implemented, a hybrid system MIGHT work. But that's probably more trouble than it's worth. Ether optimize for a more methodical pace akin to turn based combat: like what we're getting with auto attack and the battle revision, or optimize for action-RPG like Tera or Vindictus.

Trying to get the best of both worlds in this case led to us getting the worse of both worlds.

[Jynx]

I agree that armour switching in combat should be a no-go. As much as I loved all of my Thiefs gear sets I don't think I should be able to switch them mid-combat, and highly situational gear sets tailored to do like one thing good "Hecatomb sup" shouldn't be allowed to just "Switch" in.

I still love the idea of having a evasion and accuracy set but I'd rather equip them based on the monster I'm fighting and not "Is the monster going to WS me soon?"

[Rentahamster]

Anyway, im with you on the ability to switch armor or lack thereof in battle. I can understand changing equipment because "Hey this monster absorbs fire attacks?! Quick change to an ice weapon!", not constantly using equip + skill macros just to get 25 more points of damage. Just seems unnecessary to me, and then everyone ends up "needing" to have the same equipment and use the same macro setup as every other job if they want to participate in whatever high end combat activities.

Indeed. Mid-battle gear change as a needed strategy for "high level" play is a terrible design mechanic. Being able to change clothes in the middle of a fight is not good strategy.

The same goal of emphasizing situational strategy to enhance certain abilities should come from the art of battle itself.

[Physic]

It served the same function that a cooldown does, which is:


which is the purpose of a cooldown, and it's redundant and bad design to have them both in the game.

Whoever posted this comment knows what's up:



This weird amalgamation of a battle system we have now is the result of this mish mash. Now, properly implemented, a hybrid system MIGHT work. But that's probably more trouble than it's worth. Ether optimize for a more methodical pace akin to turn based combat: like what we're getting with auto attack and the battle revision, or optimize for action-RPG like Tera or Vindictus.

Trying to get the best of both worlds in this case led to us getting the worse of both worlds.

stamina is an overall pool for all actions, not a specific recast of one skill, it also builds up and allows you to not attack, then unleash a chain of attacks when the time is right, recast based systems, and auto attack prevent this. You will always need to be attacking, or you lose DPS, even more so, since your good damage will be tp based now.

They all served different purposes, Stamina alone changed the whole defensive or offensive equation, now they will probably have to make guard reduce your damage as an overall % or reduce your attack speed, otherwise there is no cost for using it.
Provoke and taunt for example, with stamina, you only want to use it you need too, with a recast system you may as well use it at every oppurtunity. Stamina is huge difference in playstyle and in options versus auto attacks and cooldowns. Even reactionary skills, the main advantage was the low stamina cost, it allowed you to do damage while tanking and paying attention, it being prefered over other weaponskills, just because its stamina didnt hold you back, and allowed you to keep high stamina for provoke, guard, second wind, etc.

Offensively it allowed any player to focus on a burst type damage, used for fighting things like imps or other low hp high damage type monsters.

It wasnt a system haphazardly overlayed that served no purpose, it was the backbone of combat.

[Kiote]

Well this sucks..

All i got out of that is..

You will no longer be able to play your jobs the way you choose...

This is going to be the worst update this game has gotten yet.

[Burn]

I read the whole thing, just color me extremely skeptical. I don't believe they're gonna be able to pull it off, the more info that comes out the more years I begin to think its going to take and they haven't even begun discussing the work its going to take to outside of the battle plans like an auction house and mailbox system.

[Rentahamster]

stamina is an overall pool for all actions, not a specific recast of one skill, it also builds up and allows you to not attack, then unleash a chain of attacks when the time is right,
It wasnt a system haphazardly overlayed that served no purpose, it was the backbone of combat.

Players are going to act the almost the same exact way and do almost the same behaviors with or without stamina. The only difference is that with stamina, they have to wait longer to do what they were gonna do anyway.

With or without stamina, the overall strategy and flow of battle stays pretty much the same. That's why speed surge II is so useful. You play pretty much exactly the same, just faster.

[Picoman]

Well this sucks..

All i got out of that is..

You will no longer be able to play your jobs the way you choose...

This is going to be the worst update this game has gotten yet.

Im guessing u didnt take part in the Players Poll.