Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[Imoen]

What they did wrong is the part where switching to a Job gives 5 job skills, while only removing other potential class skills. If they make more of the classes skills usable only by the job, while making more of another classes skills cross-classable we will have X class solos while X Job parties.


But, because they butchured all the classes of a lot of skills, they are going to need to add them back in before they do this. Such as Red Lotus blade, Circle slash, Etc.

Ya, I don't know it seems to me like this would just shove it back to what it was at launch where everybody just ends up cross classing the same things anyway. (Raise, stone skin, second wind etc....) Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant.

Maybe if we had 10 job abilities instead of 5, with no cross classing when on a job. Then while on class having the full 10 cross class... then maybe, just maybe there would be a reason for this overly complex set up. It just seems messy to me the whole thing and I see it causing problems sometime down the road.

**this assuming obviously that they keep things mostly how they were.

[Colvin]

Ya, I don't know it seems to me like this would just shove it back to what it was at launch where everybody just ends up cross classing the same things anyway. (Raise, stone skin, second wind etc....) Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant.

I know everyone hated that, but it seems to me the answer was to make MORE abilities so people had more viable choices. People chose those because they were the best to have for lack of great alternatives. If the skill situation was more diverse and the time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others, it could have been addressed.

[Imoen]

I know everyone hated that, but it seems to me the answer was to make MORE abilities so people had more viable choices. People chose those because they were the best to have for lack of great alternatives. If the skill situation was more diverse and the time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others, it could have been addressed.

People would just end up gravitating at certain builds even with more options, this has been proven time and time again in many other games, not to mention balancing would be a nightmare trying to figure out all the different possible combinations you could have on each class/job, with an even wider selection of exploitation.

You're essentially saying you want to make your own job/class with this kind of set up, which sounds great on paper. The solution you presented, "time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others" just kind of ends up turning into either nerfing and buffing skills until the end of time.

[whoopeeragon]

Ya, I don't know it seems to me like this would just shove it back to what it was at launch where everybody just ends up cross classing the same things anyway. (Raise, stone skin, second wind etc....) Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant.

Maybe if we had 10 job abilities instead of 5, with no cross classing when on a job. Then while on class having the full 10 cross class... then maybe, just maybe there would be a reason for this overly complex set up. It just seems messy to me the whole thing and I see it causing problems sometime down the road.

**this assuming obviously that they keep things mostly how they were.

I know everyone hated that, but it seems to me the answer was to make MORE abilities so people had more viable choices. People chose those because they were the best to have for lack of great alternatives. If the skill situation was more diverse and the time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others, it could have been addressed.

I said this in another topic, but they could do it by implementing class quest-chains like how they did with jobs. Quests at level 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, which give class-only abilities, with levels 30, 35 and 40 abilities become cross-classeable. Case in point, at lvl 30, GLA can do its class quest and obtain Red Lotus as an ability. Meanwhile, keep classes as diverse as it is by keeping the 10 cross-classeable ability option. Implement abilities that benefit in solo/light party situations, and give unique traits that jobs will be unable to obtain, such as TP move for mages.

They could do so much with the armoury system its unbelievable, but people don't like to think about the possibilities it seems...

[Colvin]

They could do so much with the armoury system its unbelievable, but people don't like to think about the possibilities it seems...

They could do so much more too... like.. Ionno.. let Gladiators equip more than just swords... like... gladitors do...?

[Imoen]

I said this in another topic, but they could do it by implementing class quest-chains like how they did with jobs. Quests at level 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, which give class-only abilities, with levels 30, 35 and 40 abilities become cross-classeable. Case in point, at lvl 30, GLA can do its class quest and obtain Red Lotus as an ability. Meanwhile, keep classes as diverse as it is by keeping the 10 cross-classeable ability option. Implement abilities that benefit in solo/light party situations, and give unique traits that jobs will be unable to obtain, such as TP move for mages.

They could do so much with the armoury system its unbelievable, but people don't like to think about the possibilities it seems...

Then the number of abilities on class vs job would be a different number and people would get upset about that. I understand what you're saying though.

[whoopeeragon]

Then the number of abilities on class vs job would be a different number and people would get upset about that. I understand what you're saying though.

I don't see a problem with different numbers of abilities though. In fact, that was a flaw I see in the current balancing - the armoury system should have more abilities to use rather than the job system. Jobs are specialised - they aren't meant to have as many access to as many abilities as classes. Classes should therefore have more abilities to use, so that feature is something I'm actually for, having classes have a higher number of abilities and skills.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems some of you aren't willing to step out of the comfort zone of using jobs to trying out using classes more often. Is it the community mentality of being scared of the unknown which is ultimately doing this? Much like how no-one is willing to experiment outside of cookie-cutter set ups for content, even if they may be better. (this isn't directed at you, Imoen, but the general community)

[Imoen]

I don't see a problem with different numbers of abilities though. In fact, that was a flaw I see in the current balancing - the armoury system should have more abilities to use rather than the job system. Jobs are specialised - they aren't meant to have as many access to as many abilities as classes. Classes should therefore have more abilities to use, so that feature is something I'm actually for, having classes have a higher number of abilities and skills.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems some of you aren't willing to step out of the comfort zone of using jobs to trying out using classes more often. Is it the community mentality of being scared of the unknown which is ultimately doing this? Much like how no-one is willing to experiment outside of cookie-cutter set ups for content, even if they may be better.

Technically classes do have more "options" right now.
Class = 10 cross class skills of their choosing. Job = 5 specifics + 5 limited cross class.

As far as the cookie cutter comment, unfortunately that's how things go, it has nothing to do with me personally.

[whoopeeragon]

Technically classes do have more "options" right now.
Class = 10 cross class skills of their choosing. Job = 5 specifics + 5 limited cross class.

As far as the cookie cutter comment, unfortunately that's how things go, it has nothing to do with me personally.

That is true, but I personally see that having the same 'number' of abilities is a flaw. Classes should have all three bars full the brim (IMO) with leftover abilities to choose from.

[Valmonte]

Is it the community mentality of being scared of the unknown which is ultimately doing this? Much like how no-one is willing to experiment outside of cookie-cutter set ups for content, even if they may be better.

SE has already set predefined shapes here are your choices Star, Round, Gingerbread Man and Pine Tree, pick one.