Why do we have classes AND jobs again?

[NoloeTazier]

A point I want to reiterate, the only reason to use a Class in 2.0: 1.) To level up and unlock the ACTUAL job. 2.) To do Class only content.

Class only content is going to fail. That's EXTRA gear we have to carry around to become said Class. If Jobs are suppose to be specialized Classes for party situations, why are we partying with Classes to do these things. It's not because we will want to, its because we will be FORCED to.

In all honesty, who is going to play a Class in 2.0 other than to unlock a job? Even to make Arcanist different from Summoner they're not giving Summoner the option to summon Carbuncle, that way Arcanist will be different from it's Job. It's ridiculous, we're merely limiting everything so we can allow Classes and Jobs to exist together and be 'different.'

[Colvin]

Ya, I don't know it seems to me like this would just shove it back to what it was at launch where everybody just ends up cross classing the same things anyway. (Raise, stone skin, second wind etc....) Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant.

I know everyone hated that, but it seems to me the answer was to make MORE abilities so people had more viable choices. People chose those because they were the best to have for lack of great alternatives. If the skill situation was more diverse and the time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others, it could have been addressed.

[Colvin]

....Doesn't that sound way overpowered to you? In that case, why bother differentiating between jobs and classes at all? Why not just have one discipline to have everything at your fingertips? Why BOTHER with any differences?

Not really. Honestly, in a situation like that it seems like an error on the part of skill/ability balancing. The challange is to design an environment where various ability combinations all have viable use.

But I am also a fan of letting people be a little overpowered at times. There is accomplishment in discovering a combo that makes you a bad-a**

[Heavens]

I really don't get the point of the starting classes other than a baseline to start from. They become pointless when the jobs are unlocked. I wouldn't mind a purge of them, or at least disabling of them, when the jobs are unlocked. I agree it's probably too complicated of a mess to change when they have more features they'd rather implement. It isn't broken or anything so why waste the time.

It probably won't bother me as much with the new armory tool though. One less thing to click (which is the only reason I complain :P).

[Reika]

I think the bottom line is that they took away way too many skills. Some shuffling of skills was/is good, but it was the excess removal of skills that led to them being too identical to their jobs, and giving nothing to work on to fix it. If they had been less crazy about it, jobs would be much more different than the classes that make them, but right now they aren't.

[whoopeeragon]

Ya, I don't know it seems to me like this would just shove it back to what it was at launch where everybody just ends up cross classing the same things anyway. (Raise, stone skin, second wind etc....) Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant.

Maybe if we had 10 job abilities instead of 5, with no cross classing when on a job. Then while on class having the full 10 cross class... then maybe, just maybe there would be a reason for this overly complex set up. It just seems messy to me the whole thing and I see it causing problems sometime down the road.

**this assuming obviously that they keep things mostly how they were.

I know everyone hated that, but it seems to me the answer was to make MORE abilities so people had more viable choices. People chose those because they were the best to have for lack of great alternatives. If the skill situation was more diverse and the time was take to make sure that a certain set of skills was not THAT much better than others, it could have been addressed.

I said this in another topic, but they could do it by implementing class quest-chains like how they did with jobs. Quests at level 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, which give class-only abilities, with levels 30, 35 and 40 abilities become cross-classeable. Case in point, at lvl 30, GLA can do its class quest and obtain Red Lotus as an ability. Meanwhile, keep classes as diverse as it is by keeping the 10 cross-classeable ability option. Implement abilities that benefit in solo/light party situations, and give unique traits that jobs will be unable to obtain, such as TP move for mages.

They could do so much with the armoury system its unbelievable, but people don't like to think about the possibilities it seems...

[Valmonte]

So now you're ignoring the strength of the armoury system, the option to obtain skills from all the other disciplines...? You're furthering my suspicion that you don't know the difference between the job and armoury system is. Not to mention overlooking the potential.

without traits from the class your using that skill from those skills are only partially effective or completely useless. armory system has no strength it was/is a terrible idea that will only serve to limit distinction and versatility.

[indira]

They need to make classes distinct enough to warrant using them.

Nothing more, nothing less.

easy just make somethings in game class only.

[A_Hortensia]

Two things to consider...

1) Reflect upon the subjob system in XI. Now imagine XI with only the 6 starting jobs.
What's the point? Most people are going to use the same sub anyway right?
Now reflect on how it works with 20+ jobs.
FFXIV only has 7 disciplines. The more disciplines, the more sense the current system makes.

2) FFV. Main jobs and sub jobs. More similar to XI than XIV, because XIV has pre-set sub jobs.
However, there's also the "Bare" job. Essentially, can equip ANYTHING, and you choose which abilities to use.
In 14, that's kind of like being choosing between GLA or PUG, depending on which weapon you want to use,
Then the freedom to create your own custom character with whatever abilities you've learned elsewhere.

It makes sense to me. Hopefully this offers a different perception.

[Colvin]

They could do so much with the armoury system its unbelievable, but people don't like to think about the possibilities it seems...

They could do so much more too... like.. Ionno.. let Gladiators equip more than just swords... like... gladitors do...?