Realm Reborn = downgrade?

[Kallera]

I am not convinced that the animations are the problem in battle situations, or that it needs something like sliding across the ground to be the answer. Sliding around while defeating enemies just isn't controlling a fighter or a mage in pitched battle. It's playing Assault Rigs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQDSZ...=results_video)

I can understand stuff like not lowering the lighting to make a show of your techniques, or certain weapon skills, not be limited by movement(Jumping attacks like Aura pulse), but /basic/ movement and animation is too far. It kills the polish of this game, and for no real gain that can't be done in 1.0.

[Nemy]

Arguing that yeah it would be good to add these animations , but they can't add them because they don't have the time to do them the right way so it won't interfere with the gameplay .
Square wants money , they rules over the devs , the devs are forced to make that kind of choice and they prefered to have smooth gameplay over good animation .

Okay, added you.

[Xmbei]

alright that op is definately better and more clear for a refresh start. (^.^)=b

(not particularly on this topic but it does slightly impact my importance of this animation.... I want to play 2.0 more than anything for the story... because 1.0's main story was decent for what was given but it left it at a cliffhanger and so many cliffhangers leaving me go "wtf? that was the amazing story given to us?" Seriously by the end I didn't have a clear understanding on direction or who our true enemy was in it, at cap just a "we almost got killed by this darth vader guy, but uhhhh what do you mean this was a close of a chapter in my characters life? I wanted to know what happened in Grid after forced to leave to Uldah. I am easily adaptable, what gets me in a FF mmo is the story and the ingame community. Because we all kind of get to know each other and have fun. Its what kept me going with FF mmo's the longest to other mmo's! So again I wouldn't mind it added but it is on low end of my prioritys to make me love xiv or arr.

[Nemy]

Yes, YOU could play any other MMO on the market. The animations were one unique thing FFXIV had, among other things. Trust me, if you want them to develop more interesting encounters beyond Tank and Spank (which I hope you would), then they need to make sure the gameplay isn't hamstringed by trying to capture minor animations. And yes, this is assuming you want to do more than solo quests and run around camps for hours on end. Any successful MMO has had a focus on gameplay over graphics, and those MMO's can do incredibly complex encounters due to quick player and server responsiveness.

I keep bringing this back to gameplay, because the dev's have stated it's a gameplay/graphics conflict. Someone here replied to me stating that "Not every fight is like Ifrit". I would counter that any fight worth it's salt requires quick repositioning and avoiding certain attacks/environmental damage.

Although i don't agree, and i believe SE can solve the responsiveness and the lock issues without completely hammering the current animation, (or at least leave it as such on passive mode) i quoted you in my OP.

[lololink]

i don't know about the passive mode , it could be a good idea but i don't think it would be simple to add , what if you change mode while starting to move or while you stop walking ...

[Xmbei]

ah now this is a refreshing read, constructive balanced discussion going on, not angry words! this topic yet might be saved!

[Ikkenoe]

I am not convinced that the animations are the problem in battle situations, or that it needs something like sliding across the ground to be the answer

i'm not convinced you've ever played a successful MMO with proper battle/gameplay mechanics

[Nemy]

I want to play 2.0 more than anything for the story... because 1.0's main story was decent for what was given but it left it at a cliffhanger and so many cliffhangers leaving me go "wtf? that was the amazing story given to us?" Seriously by the end I didn't have a clear understanding on direction or who our true enemy was in it, at cap just a "we almost got killed by this darth vader guy, but uhhhh what do you mean this was a close of a chapter in my characters life? I wanted to know what happened in Grid after forced to leave to Uldah. I am easily adaptable, what gets me in a FF mmo is the story and the ingame community. Because we all kind of get to know each other and have fun. Its what kept me going with FF mmo's the longest to other mmo's! So again I wouldn't mind it added but it is on low end of my prioritys to make me love xiv or arr.

Added, thank you.

We have completely different priorities... for example, i casually (or not so casually at times) play games all my life, yet to find a game that will impress me with its story is very rare. I tend to think story telling shines on other mediums, such as film and literature, not games. What keeps me in a game is either competition, or the aspect of being believable. FFXI to me was truly another world i could escape to, and aesthetics / world design / animation / pace, played a huge role for that feeling. When i first entered Eorzea a couple of years ago, i really felt the same way, although i realised that this world is a baby that needs to grow up. But the fundamentals were all there. How my character and the world feels now, is absolutely what i need from the game. When i saw the pre-alpha videos i felt that they stripped a big part of that feeling by making my character move in such a way. Like winning the lottery but being left crippled.

[Ixmo]

Okay, it seems some people simply do not understand why this choice was made. I understand why there is so much defence for keeping the current animations but what people need to realise is that the current animations do not work in a proper MMO. Before you go crazy on me, you need to understand that even though this is Final Fantasy, it's an MMO first. In an MMO the franchise itself means NOTHING if the gameplay is shabby and poorly developed, hence 1.0 and its failure (also notice SWTOR).

For example, take the classic 'move out of the fire' scenario. You're a caster. A fire appears underneath you. You need to quickly move out of the fire and then continue damaging the enemy. As it stands, to be able to quickly run out of the fire and properly reposition yourself, you need to switch off the targeting, press the movement keys, let go of the movement key and then wait until the character reaches a complete halt before you start casting again. You simply can't allow these kinds of aesthetics to affect combat and gameplay in such an inferior way compared to what's known as 'the standard', or it won't be in any form a success. It's this situation where the animations are affecting core gameplay and shouldn't exist.

As much as people hate others bringing up WoW, there is a BIG reason as to why it's such a success. And no, it's not because it's Warcraft, out of the hundreds of people I've played with not one of them cared about lore (even though I know there are lore-lovers out there), it's because it's the ONLY MMO since its release to be strict to a cast time and not care about animations. You press a movement key and you run, you let go you stop. Everything is instant, and it's fluid and smooth. Is it realistic? Not really. Is it aesthetically pleasing? Not really. The point is, when you're playing an MMORPG, the combat, movement and gameplay have to be fluid, smooth and have the player fully in control of what the character is doing.

As long as these types of animations have NOTHING to do with combat or gameplay, it's okay for it to be implemented. But seeing as there's no animation lock for 2.0, having the movement animations of 1.0 WOULD affect gameplay. I'm trusting the devs on this one because they honestly seem like they know what they're doing and they're being vastly underappreciated for the amount of dedicated work they have put into this game. It's like you guys are wanting another 1.0 failure. You can throw as many realism arguments around as you like, but you need to realise the people who would rather settle on 'realistic' movements and aesthetics over core gameplay are in the minority and are being ignorant at the fact this is not how MMO's work. The rest of us actually want fluid movements and combat, because that's the main importance in an MMO over graphics and animations. I don't mean to sound disrespectful because I can see why people would want the animations back, but they just don't fly well in an MMORPG.

[Nemy]

While many of you here are arguing about whether the animation and gameplay affect each other in any meaningful way, I'm left wondering one simple question:

Why is it that ArenaNet has no problem coding Guild Wars 2 avatars with fluid stop/land animations while still maintaining lag-free gameplay? Here's your example. Also notice that, at about 5 minutes in, even in battle there is still somewhat of a foot positioning animation of about 1-2 seconds. Doesn't affect gameplay at all. Explain that SE.

Basically, if GW2 can do it, why the $%@# can't FFXIV?! SE needs to look at GW2 and stop looking at WoW for this and many other reasons.

For the trolls: Why don't I go play that game, you say? I do. I also play many other games.

Thank you so much for this example, i'm actually impressed by GW animation. Still not as good as the current FFXIV one, but miles ahead what we see in 2.0 so far. This would be a really solid argument against the notion that we need to downgrade the animation in order to get better gameplay especially when using a game that emphasizes manual dodges of hostile skills, as an example.

You're truly an asset Zai.