Thoughts on the Purify changes?

[TofuLove]

Sounds like people here tend to purify everything under the sun. You don't actually need to do that, unless you've managed to put yourself in a bad position in the first place where you're surrounded by enemies with no allies to back you up. Most CC can be ignored if you're in an adequate position, because you're not getting pummeled with multiple CCs. If you find you are getting targeted, it only takes a few seconds to purify, heal and retreat. Again, unless you stuck your neck out too far.

are we? we aren't. we are just standing there soaking up all the bullshit cc that devs decided to put in. and it's not super fun.
stop defending this slop, exmo, for frontline at least you know it's bad that they tied purify to mp and then put in jobs that take that mp away.

[Exmo]

are we? we aren't. we are just standing there soaking up all the bullshit cc that devs decided to put in. and it's not super fun.
stop defending this slop, exmo, for frontline at least you know it's bad that they tied purify to mp and then put in jobs that take that mp away.

From what I've played it's fine. I tend to play pretty aggressively but still the amount of times I found I needed to spam any mp button was uncommon. So I have to ask, why do you need to spam recuperate so much?

[TofuLove]

From what I've played it's fine. I tend to play pretty aggressively but still the amount of times I found I needed to spam any mp button was uncommon. So I have to ask, why do you need to spam recuperate so much?

I am basically a tank pvp main at this point.

I play a lot of solo drk. It's my comfy class, and nothing quite compares. No healer, no bravery kitten by my side, just a big ol' rusty sword and waning sanity.
I don't spam purify, I usually just press salted and try to get out these days, as MP gets burned through instantly otherwise. Purify change made being aggressive even more difficult - not impossible, but it's like fighting an uphill battle. Same with other tanks, but they feel (and are) tankier.

Paladin is strong due to buffs and is probably the most swiss army knife of tanks right now, gunbreaker is nebula bait, so being cc'd you just stand there and reflect damage and hope you can get out. Warrior is ok, it's a noticeable nerf as again, your mp gets drained as you go in.

From other classes I tried, I thought sam doesn't feel good with purify change due to cast times interuption - 2s is too short for it with how funky netcode is. I can see that viper is great and basically replaces tanks as an initiator for cc soak, but i am just not huge on it.
I tried white mage and it somehow became even easier than before. Scholar is alright as support class but I really cannot be bothered with that playstyle.

[MisterNublet]

Is this different to the DRK meta that existed? There's always a meta, isn't there? And a half decent VPR and GNB seems to eat up just fine.

Anyway, I actually preferred the overall flow prior to the animation/role actions/purify "improvements" they made.

I should have mentioned that I'm talking about Crystalline Conflicts.

I've personally never had an issue with DRKs in Frontlines. But I also don't play ranged jobs, don't stand on top of others in a giant ball, and I don't AFK like a majority of the playerbase who que up for FLs for the exp.

[Chasingstars]

Well the change in frontlines certainly makes people less survivable. As now they effectively have 2500 less mp. Like before patch? Purify and heal while retreating, only cost 2500 mp. Do that now? 5000 mp cost.

Bard? Oh yeah, they can also snipe you of 5000 mp, so depending on your mp pool you are either at 5000, 2500, or 0. If sniped when retreating, that is 0 mp.

Similarly white mages can drain 2500 mp. Which if a player uses purify to remove miracle of nature, and then a heal, they are down to 2500 mp or effectively 0 if their mp is not close enough for another purify or heal.

EDIT: Also amazing that they basically made purify so bad, its reactive now. A proactive purify is swift, which is for melee dps, lasts 4 seconds, seems to be only countered by miracle of nature, no mp cost, and grants 100% movement speed. So great if you want to retreat or engage.

And Bard has its own variation of purify, warden's paean, which is useful and doesn't cost mp.

[Healiam]

I can see your point totally. The cost for recuperate is enormous considering the amount of health you could have restored instead. I don't like it a lot, but in Frontline as a tank/melee it helps you get away as your need for health is not as immediate as other roles. For squishier targets it may not be as effective though. I personally would rather prefer the 30 second cooldown, alongside a type-matching crowd control immunity after being afflicted with one. I'm talking mostly Frontline here, as it is my favourite mode. (For example, if you get hit with a stun, you can't be hit with another stun for 5-10 seconds, but you can be hit by slow or sleep etc.). It existed in the game before as Fetter Ward in Frontline, and I miss it greatly

[Chasingstars]

I can see your point totally. The cost for recuperate is enormous considering the amount of health you could have restored instead. I don't like it a lot, but in Frontline as a tank/melee it helps you get away as your need for health is not as immediate as other roles. For squishier targets it may not be as effective though. I personally would rather prefer the 30 second cooldown, alongside a type-matching crowd control immunity after being afflicted with one. I'm talking mostly Frontline here, as it is my favourite mode. (For example, if you get hit with a stun, you can't be hit with another stun for 5-10 seconds, but you can be hit by slow or sleep etc.). It existed in the game before as Fetter Ward in Frontline, and I miss it greatly

Might be nice. I know its been years at this point of them ignoring one of the requests at least as far back as 6.1. Which was just innate crowd control resistance. Similar to how npcs have it, like if it get stunned for 2 seconds, next times its 1, then immune for a few seconds to that kind of crowd control. At least that would feel fair.

I doubt we will see any major changes as they are currently obsessed with crystalline conflict so whatever works for CC is fine in their eyes.

[Valence]

Just a reminder: I played about three full seasons of ranked Crystalline Conflict after the old Secure was removed.
I also played a lot of casual CC back during the Seize and Onsal Hakair days.
That said, I want to make it clear: I don’t like the current changes either.

I'm not going to dive too deeply into your choice of using Raiju to support your argument as that's your personal approach.
If you want to spend 5,000 MP just to Purify a 1-second Raiju stun, that's your decision.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a good trade.

My main argument is that this change hurts melee jobs more in PvP (considering both Crystalline Conflict and Frontline) because most melee crowd control tools are soft CC.
These abilities typically serve as anchors, helping to stop targets (especially ranged jobs) from constantly kiting or running away.

I’m not sure how many PvP jobs you’ve actually played, but I encourage you to try Samurai (I don't play it in PvP this expansion myself).
Let me know if you can reliably land Ogi Namikiri without using Mineuchi first.
Most melees rely on that soft CC just to get a chance at engaging properly.
It’s simply not on the same level as hard CC like Silence or other forms of CC that can't be cleansed by Purify.
These recent changes make melee jobs burn through MP much faster, which directly impacts their survivability

Raiju is like any stun or silence, in CC if you need to get out of dodge immediately else you get oneshot, you purify, period. You just need to keep in mind that a second one is probably coming not long after when your purify expires (so 2s after which is nothing), and potentially a third if you're playing against min maxers.

And I strictly disagree with your arbitrary separation between melee and range CC, that's just pure nonsense to me. They all have it in equal measures, no matter the type.

I have played Samurai pretty extensively, although not at ranked level, but I do know the job well. You don't need Mineuchi to land Ogi or any cast no. The range is huge, and you also have an AoE bind at disposal which is usually a savvier choice to have the target purify it so that you can stun them after, especially after eating your first wave of damage before they recup out of it. I think you reason way too much with a FL mindset there.

If you find you are getting targeted, it only takes a few seconds to purify, heal and retreat. Again, unless you stuck your neck out too far.

That's... not how it works in CC past a certain level, especially versus stuns or silences that disallow guarding without purifying.

FL comment then, nevermind me

[Exmo]

I'm talking about Frontline

[Teno]

From what I've played it's fine. I tend to play pretty aggressively but still the amount of times I found I needed to spam any mp button was uncommon. So I have to ask, why do you need to spam recuperate so much?

You're not going in enough to notice the big change then.