Can we please

[TomsYoungerBro]

"No problem" I thought. I finished the MSQ earlier and I had about 4-6 pieces of 735 gear that should help raise the ilvl substantially, from their 710-700 gear. I went to trade them some of the gear, and I COULDN'T. I completely forgot this game still has the insane arbitrary restriction on, of all things, DUNGEON GEAR.

Considering you probably robbed a poor raider who was just trying to get some of those pieces to update their FRU BiS, this is deserved.

[Ephremjlm]

Idk man, if you're so established maybe just craft the gear yourself in a couple of minutes....... Btw 740 gear was 50-100k a piece like 3 days ago on my world so idk, maybe don't get scammed.

Gee thanks for adding another incoherent comment.

1. Established? To whom? To you? Crafting makes you established? I'm sorry I have so much time in the game idk how I forgot to become established.
2. You just told me that being able to trade dungeon gear wouldn't have solved my problem at all but then told me it would have solved my problem but because you might not have any dungeon gear in your possession at the moment it wouldn't make sense. Do you have an armory? Do you not get drops that you don't notice sometimes? Does gear stay in your possession for any amount of time at all before you either trade it in, drop it, sell it, or desynth it? Do you have no dungeon gear for glamor in either your retainers or armory? In ALL of these instances we could have looked to grab gear, traded it, with the expectation to either get it back, or let them keep it.
3. Oh wow YOUR world. I'll take your advice and try not to get scammed........oh wait except someone who was actually trying to help earlier mentioned the logistics of why the gear is so expensive right now. NONE of us knew this because like I said we just came back and were simply trying to play the games new content with each other.

Like good lord look outside your own bubble for once and develop some empathy.

[Ephremjlm]

I see where you're going now. It looks like you've had to respond to a bunch of people here who aren't quite understanding the point you're trying to make, so perhaps step back a moment and consider if the original post maybe wasn't as clear as it sounded in your mind. From reading through it initially, it sounds like your primary complaint is about not being able to get sufficient gear right away, and that the dungeon gear thing is just one little piece of your complaint rather than the main focus. I'd recommend mentioning dungeon gear in the title of the thread or at least in the very first paragraph - I think that would make it more likely for people to understand the point you're actually trying to make.

Also, when you spend an entire paragraph saying things like "I thought this game was supposed to be friendly to those who take breaks" and then detailing a series of hoops you feel you and your friends need to jump through, that's definitely at the very least implying if not directly claiming the game has poor catch-up mechanics. Just saying.

Hey my man I'm going to dial back the tone a bit since I don't think you are coming off as malicious, however I simply disagree with some things, and heres why.

You're right if I would have added specific things in the title or started off by stating my points off the bat, more people might not have misunderstood. That said, I specifically made the post the way I did, starting off with a story format which builds up to my point with a real world example as to my "why" before stating my point (The paragraph title is the beginning of that paragraph btw). I then use supporting points to show that there is no reason we shouldn't be able to trade dungeon gear. If you took from what I said that the game has poor catch up mechanics, then it's being taken personally. I'm saying that BECAUSE of the philosophy and all of these other things, here is an example of why this thing that should be possible became a barrier that was annoying and at this point shouldn't be there.

The fact that people choose to not actually read and jump to conclusions based on reading anything they deem as pushback, OR completely ignore the points and tell me to do other things or whatever (i've lost track at this point) is completely on them. I don't mind those arguments because I think they actually strengthen mine overall.

[Ephremjlm]

If you - and your friends - want to exclude an entire progression pillar from your game-play, that's entirely valid. It is however disingenuous to imply it isn't a 'major part' of the experience simply because you choose not to engage with it. It's how these systems are designed.

The system expects; some level of time investment, gil/material investment or community investment.

I understand, fully, that you just want the easiest possible path of least resistance short-cut so you and your friends can tackle the most recent content - and leave again - but that's not how this game works by design. And it shouldn't do so. Because that's not how the participation loop for the game is intended.

The reasons why you can't trade for dungeon gear would, off the top of my head, revolve around... RMT abuse, keeping personal engagement with the content, ensures that there's some tangible value to participating in dungeon content, etc.

Free gear distribution without participation is a horrendous idea.

I actually don't know what to say and part of me thinks you're trolling. You are factually wrong.

1. Crafting and gathering is not an essential progression pillar. I've played FFXIV since the beginning of Stormblood, crafting/gathering has NEVER been a requirement.

2. I'm fine with MMO's requiring time investment. This isn't the one that usually does though. In fact it's literally in their marketing. Don't believe me?
"Experience a new generation of MMORPG where grinding is kept to a minimum so you can enjoy more immediate results!" - https://freetrial.finalfantasyxiv.co...id=22365075108

3. Yes in that specific moment we wanted a short path to get to the minimum item level for a run so that EVERYONE could play together.....like you normally would in an MMO. Whether or not we leave afterwards should have nothing to do with anything. Yoshi P. specifically tells us to leave when we have nothing that we want to do. And again, you are FACTUALLY wrong. The game DOES work that way. And it DID work. YOU people wanted all the QOL and so the expectation when playing the game is that we don't have weird arbitrary barriers like this one.

4. My man trading dungeon gear that almost no one uses would not affect RMT at all. It also wouldn't affect ANYTHING as far as engagement. You still have your little tombstone hamster wheel that ends up being BIS in most instances.

It's funny, for someone who wants so much player participation and engagement, i'm shocked FFXIV is your go to game. I'd like to see how you fare logging into classic FFXI, or Everquest, because your answers make it sound like you have some weird idea of how you think the game should operate vs how it does and you want to verbally shoot down anyone who disagrees with you. But again, I'd say you should take it up with Yoshi P. not me. I'm just playing the game the way it works and is currently intended.

[RenkoBernkastel]

Gee thanks for adding another incoherent comment.

1. Established? To whom? To you? Crafting makes you established? I'm sorry I have so much time in the game idk how I forgot to become established.
2. You just told me that being able to trade dungeon gear wouldn't have solved my problem at all but then told me it would have solved my problem but because you might not have any dungeon gear in your possession at the moment it wouldn't make sense. Do you have an armory? Do you not get drops that you don't notice sometimes? Does gear stay in your possession for any amount of time at all before you either trade it in, drop it, sell it, or desynth it? Do you have no dungeon gear for glamor in either your retainers or armory? In ALL of these instances we could have looked to grab gear, traded it, with the expectation to either get it back, or let them keep it.
3. Oh wow YOUR world. I'll take your advice and try not to get scammed........oh wait except someone who was actually trying to help earlier mentioned the logistics of why the gear is so expensive right now. NONE of us knew this because like I said we just came back and were simply trying to play the games new content with each other.

Like good lord look outside your own bubble for once and develop some empathy.

Did you fall on your head or something? YOU YOURSELF called yourself an established player, that's why I said it in the first place.
I also said it would have solved your one problem one time but it wouldn't be the be all end all solution to said problem. Multiple people can suffer from the same issue, you having gear left lying around doesn't fix THEIR issue. My god, you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Imagine figuring out context on your own. You know how some people in the world go hungry every day? YOU having food doesn't solve that.

Actual neanderthal.

[Ephremjlm]

You've supposedly played mmo's for over 20 years, and you unironically think an ilvl 725 requirement 19 weeks after 7.2 is too hard?

Also you claimed "there was either none left on the market board, or it was all super expensive." You checked every MB on crystal and couldn't find any "affordable" crafted gear.

This reads like "We didn't do much for months but still feel like we should be able to do the new content day 1 of the new patch."

Lol I've read plenty of your comments now to know you're bad faith so I'll have fun and engage with you.

1. Did I say it was too hard? or did I say that there was an arbitrary barrier with trading lesser dungeon gear that most people don't use? And yes I have played MMO's for over 20 years and I would be willing to bet that you probably would think they're too hard.

2. Yeah like others have explained, because this patch introduced the upgrades to the crafted gear, people bought most of them, and the ones that were left were insanely expensive. We didn't know this because we were gone. I literally saw examples of legs going for 700k and even an earring going for 1.5mil. My bad for being a good FC mate and trying to help others so they can also participate in content with us and have fun. It is supposed to be an MMO after all. But I guess you people have played the game on solo mode for so long that you don't understand kindness or empathy.

3. YEAH kinda, that is if we can get the gear. Tell me, when you hit level 100 at the beginning of a patch cycle, does your rotation change AT ALL after that? Oh it doesn't? so literally every boss there after your skills and ability to perform your rotation stay the same regardless of the gear you have on? Oh wow, so the only barrier to entry is the minimum gear level, and all we have to do is meet that? okay, well you're telling me it's okay that we buy it off the marketboard but it's not okay to trade someone dungeon gear that most of the time no one uses anyways? Make that make sense to me. You people are ridiculous.

[Ephremjlm]

Did you fall on your head or something? YOU YOURSELF called yourself an established player, that's why I said it in the first place.
I also said it would have solved your one problem one time but it wouldn't be the be all end all solution to said problem. Multiple people can suffer from the same issue, you having gear left lying around doesn't fix THEIR issue. My god, you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Imagine figuring out context on your own. You know how some people in the world go hungry every day? YOU having food doesn't solve that.

Actual neanderthal.

Oh you're right my apologies i'm dealing with a bunch of ignorant comments back to back by people who make this game their personality so that part slipped. That said your assumption that an established player means you can craft the latest gear is still weird. idk what to tell you on that. With how many hours this game requires simply finishing the MSQ can make someone established.

And lol talk about reading comprehension, what do you think all of those examples I gave were? They were about being able to trade those gear pieces and how they would solve a lot of those problems. WHAT!?

Your exact quote: "but it wouldn't solve the issue at all because who tf stores loads of random dungeon gear so they can maybe eventually outfit some friends later on"

I can tell you never played any other MMO before that has trading because gifting people gear, or even letting them borrow it is a super common thing in those games. If we could trade those gear pieces I would say it would definitely help solve that problem. Did I ever say that it was the "END ALL BE ALL" solution? No I didn't, so Idk why you are even jumping to that conclusion as if that was my argument. Even using it as a rebuttal is weird as if its all or nothing.

And I'd rather be a neanderthal, than a clown in the circus ring I'm seeing here.

[Ephremjlm]

I like dogging on the game as much as the next guy, but this just ain't it.

If anything, the game is too friendly for people that take breaks.

As far as I am concerned if you take an extended break then you really should be expected to have some level of investment before being able to engage with the new stuff.

It really shouldn't be that you can take a break for 4-8 months and then come back and be immediately caught up.

I'm gonna dial back my tone with you because I don't think you aren't trolling or speaking in bad faith.

I generally would agree with you, but that is NOT how this game operates. You can basically play it solo, or in multiplayer content, play it "solo like" in that you don't have to talk to anyone, you just do the mechanics.

On top of that, I think for this game that opinion is wrong for these reasons.
1. Once you reach max level at the base of an expansion your rotation and way you play your job doesn't change at all for the rest of the patch cycle.
2. No one seems to have a problem buying the gear off the market board right? So whats the difference with being able to trade dungeon gear that most people don't use.
3. What arbitrary time investment are we talking? Do we need to do level 50 dailies with a lesser kit build? Do we need to run pelu pelu fetch quests?

Again as someone who's played MMO's that actually require players to do things I very much understand your sentiment, but the game is currently insanely easy, and I don't think trading dungeon gear so that some FC mates who had lesser gear could reach the arbitrary min ilvl matters when the skills to do their rotation hasn't changed for over a year. However if this was FFXI, Everquest, OSRS, or Classis WOW then I would agree. But the game currently works this way and from blowing a ton of gil we eventually did the run.

[Ephremjlm]

Having untradeable dungeon gear is a very standard and uncontroversial thing for an MMO to do. Crafted gear is not that expensive for a max level player if you're really looking to take shortcuts just to get up to item level. And if you're smart there are websites that monitor MB prices so you could just travel to another server and get the best price possible. Making dungeon loot tradable would just devalue crafted gear.

It's ONLY standard in hamster wheel MMO's. SE already has another MMO where that ISN'T standard, FFXI. I already explained to you in the initial post that there was low amounts of crafted gear, and the costs were insane. A couple other people in this thread have explained why already. It was just bad timing but we couldn't have known because we just resubbed.

Also we were smart, we used those websites. Making dungeon loot tradeable 1. would actually open the market up more. 2. doesn't break anything really because crafted gear and tomb gear are just so much better in comparison that people will still go for that. If anything it just makes dungeon gear not useless.

[Ephremjlm]

you ..do realize that even IF you were able to trade "dungeon gear"...it's been soulbound to you. you still can't trade it.

just go craft them a set. as someone who DIDNT take a break from the game. you should have the ability to provide your FC mates with the required gear, no? failing that, buy some.

Okay.

1. That's not how bounding works. It needs to be equipped first.
2. I already said in this thread I don't craft. It's not fun for me so I don't do it.
3. I also just resubbed, just in a lesser time frame as I tried OC. My gear was fine.
4. I also already said gear was limited on the MB, and prices were out of control. A couple people in this thread were helpful and explained why. (we're talking 5mil+ to gear a single person)