Please Stop Genderlocking Gear

[Doomed_Raven]

Indeed. The comments made by Sweet Baby Inc and Red Thread Studio employees about straight people involve harm and murder. If you have not witnessed something, this doesn't mean it does not exist.

When you've watched various ideological groups from the outside, you quickly realize all humans have the capacity to be awful. Especially the groups that believe they are beyond reproach - these are the most dangerous.

[Rithy255]

When you've watched various ideological groups from the outside, you quickly realize all humans have the capacity to be awful. Especially the groups that believe they are beyond reproach - these are the most dangerous.

The difference between "heterophobia" is that you are the long standing majority, the "default" theirs no threat of actual oppression and your rights being took away because your hetrosexual, theirs no countries that have made being hetrosexual illegal.

I don't really want to debate if it actually exists I'm sure theirs some people who are against straight people (for whatever reason), but to put it on the same level as homophobia is wild to me.

The fact is also certain things should never be a vote for democracy, certain guard rails need to be put in place that protects people otherwise that said democracy can lead to bad outcomes which shouldn't be the result of a voting system, if 51%+ of the people voted for slavery to return it would be a outright bad outcome despite if it was done through democracy or not, there are cases where certain things need to be protected, this includes simple things such as being able to date the same gender ect. Some things shouldn't frankly be a "debate" and shouldn't be political in the first place.

[Doomed_Raven]

The difference between "heterophobia" is that you are the long standing majority, the "default" theirs no threat of actual oppression and your rights being took away because your hetrosexual, theirs no countries that have made being hetrosexual illegal.

I don't really want to debate if it actually exists I'm sure theirs some people who are against straight people (for whatever reason), but to put it on the same level as homophobia is wild to me.

The fact is also certain things should never be a vote for democracy, certain guard rails need to be put in place that protects people otherwise that said democracy can lead to bad outcomes which shouldn't be the result of a voting system, if 51%+ of the people voted for slavery to return it would be a outright bad outcome despite if it was done through democracy or not, there are cases where certain things need to be protected, this includes simple things such as being able to date the same gender ect. Some things shouldn't frankly be a "debate" and shouldn't be political in the first place.

Yeah I'd say hetero seems to be the default or much more accepted form of relationship in modern times (in ancient Greece and Rome, homosexuality was more openly explored from what I understand, also in the classical/renaissance period it was quite normal or accepted to some degree) I'm not sure when attitudes changed or why, but it's a shame people couldn't just be left alone to be into whoever they like. I do think if the overton window shifted enough, even hetero people could become oppressed (just as the window shifted for some reason and homosexual people ended up worse off). But I don't think that will happen as things are currently, it would have to be a huge shift in Western society. I mentioned in another thread that some people can use the word 'cis' in a bad way, and people just laughed which is how such things go downhill (you at least have to objectivity to think such things can exist). I definitely wouldn't put it on the same level as homophobia though, because as you mention, in some countries, gay people are treated horrendously or can lose their life (I don't think I can say which countries without getting this post removed).

With voting for inhumane policies, that'd be a large overton window shift, things that were once unconscionable becoming acceptable and normal in government, I think at that point is it a democracy or a failed nation? something has to have gone very wrong, or a big shift in the Countries voters and what they think. Maybe negative ideas and misinformation sown in society to make people lean towards something bad (social media and news outlets would be a big catalyst I think). That's a tricky one to deal with. In the US there's the constitution, maybe there are some more things that could be added to it. Here in the UK we have the Magna Carta (though our current PM seems to think it is toilet paper)

[itachi-otsutsuki]

There has NEVER been an institutionalized 'irrational fear' of hetersosexuals. THAT is the difference. It is WILD to me that this is even a discussion.

[Evermomo]

Indeed. The comments made by Sweet Baby Inc and Red Thread Studio employees about straight people involve harm and murder. If you have not witnessed something, this doesn't mean it does not exist.

When you've watched various ideological groups from the outside, you quickly realize all humans have the capacity to be awful. Especially the groups that believe they are beyond reproach - these are the most dangerous.

For one, you said "in this thread."

I don't understand your values here. You say no politics on a video game forum, yet you debate the merits of democracy for pages. You argue free speech, (which allows for dissent and discourse) but also civility (which requires we conduct ourselves politely.) You seem to think only conservative people should have the benefits of either. You were sephiroth posting about algorithms, propaganda, and scapegoats, and now you're repeating right-wing ragebait. You don't apply your rules consistently, and you're mini-modding. Whatever your intentions are, I think you're only stirring the pot. If you wanted to calm people down and temper the discourse, there are better ways than condescending to them.

I also want to say; hate is not the problem. If somebody hates me, that's his problem, but he's allowed. If his hate is enshrined in institutions, traditions, laws, and norms, then it's my problem. There are no institutions, traditions, laws, or norms that punish or prohibit heterosexuality, and no one seriously advocating for them. "Phobias" and "isms" are not just opinions, they are unequal material/political conditions. Once you understand that, it's pretty easy to tell that these things can't be compared.

[Doomed_Raven]

snipped for chars.

If someone replies to me, it would be rude to not respond, though I wish these types of threads didn't end up political, I'll still respond if someone asks something. You have to have free speech in order to have civility or open communication, I mentioned RFK Jr's quote about his family being able to debate topics with different views, unfortunately to have that - you also have to let people be rude if they wish, I don't think it's a binary choice between the two. To silence people completely we couldn't have both. I certainly don't think Conservative people should alone have free speech, because then it isn't free speech but tyranny, I said no one should be silenced (this applies to anyone regardless of their views). Haha Sephiroth, hopefully from Crisis Core. Right wing rage bait? Wanting freedom of speech should be considered Liberal? (considering progressive ideas for society whilst being weary of government over reach). I haven't deviated from what I've said, I mentioned in the other deleted thread I don't like seeing people bullied for who they're into and that hasn't changed, nor that I think gear should be unlocked for both. I did get laughed at by people for mentioning something opposite does exist, that wasn't nice to be honest. I tried to explain there's two sides to every story even if we haven't personally witnessed them.

I wouldn't put heterophobia and homophobia on equal footing, the overton window definitely isn't in such a place that makes homophobia less and the other more, and unless there's a large change in society, it isn't likely to switch places. Both do exist currently if at different levels, and neither are good. With hate, laws can be used to weaponize words, and also to proliferate mistreatment, which I agree becomes a real problem.

[Evermomo]

If someone replies to me, it would be rude to not respond, though I wish these types of threads didn't end up political, I'll still respond if someone asks something. You have to have free speech in order to have civility or open communication, I mentioned RFK Jr's quote about his family being able to debate topics with different views, unfortunately to have that - you also have to let people be rude if they wish, I don't think it's a binary choice between the two. To silence people completely we couldn't have both. I certainly don't think Conservative people should alone have free speech, because then it isn't free speech but tyranny, I said no one should be silenced (this applies to anyone regardless of their views). Haha Sephiroth, hopefully from Crisis Core. Right wing rage bait? Wanting freedom of speech should be considered Liberal? (considering progressive ideas for society whilst being weary of government over reach). I haven't deviated from what I've said, I mentioned in the other deleted thread I don't like seeing people bullied for who they're into and that hasn't changed, nor that I think gear should be unlocked for both. I did get laughed at by people for mentioning something opposite does exist, that wasn't nice to be honest. I tried to explain there's two sides to every story even if we haven't personally witnessed them.

I wouldn't put heterophobia and homophobia on equal footing, the overton window definitely isn't in such a place that makes homophobia less and the other more, and unless there's a large change in society, it isn't likely to switch places. Both do exist currently if at different levels, and neither are good. With hate, laws can be used to weaponize words, and also to proliferate mistreatment, which I agree becomes a real problem.

I'm comparing what you say now to how you entered the conversation; if you don't want people to be silenced, which I agree with, you shouldn't tell them to stop talking about politics, or to stop responding to political arguments. I also agree communication can resolve disagreements and share new perspectives if done right, but that's different than "let's leave out politics." If you're getting at "let's be less inflammatory and more relevant to the thread topic," I agree, but I wish you would say it better.

The reason I think your heterophobia comment is unserious, is because you said it happened in this thread, which it didn't.

[Doomed_Raven]

I'm comparing what you say now to how you entered the conversation; if you don't want people to be silenced, which I agree with, you shouldn't tell them to stop talking about politics, or to stop responding to political arguments. I also agree communication can resolve disagreements and share new perspectives if done right, but that's different than "let's leave out politics." If you're getting at "let's be less inflammatory and more relevant to the thread topic," I agree, but I wish you would say it better.

The reason I think your heterophobia comment is unserious, is because you said it happened in this thread, which it didn't.

The problem with politics I think is most people won't be able to understand what others have experienced, and that should be fine if people can objectively put themselves in others shoes, or ask questions in a friendly fashion to find out why someone else thinks something. (This would actually be great) but unfortunately it isn't common, it can become unpleasant or like no common ground is found. Perhaps it was a bit harshly worded, this thread had a lot of arguing between people when I mentioned that it was tiring to see politics.

Some people did laugh at me when I mentioned something that other people can face, that was why I mentioned it (I can't remember if it was this thread or the one before this that was removed). If people haven't experienced something, all they have to do is ask someone where they experienced it or why they believe it, I think it'd go a long way and both people could come away learning something new. Any who I hope you have a good evening, no hard feelings.

[Evermomo]

The problem with politics I think is most people won't be able to understand what others have experienced, and that should be fine if people can objectively put themselves in others shoes, or ask questions in a friendly fashion to find out why someone else thinks something. (This would actually be great) but unfortunately it isn't common, it can become unpleasant or like no common ground is found. Perhaps it was a bit harshly worded, this thread had a lot of arguing between people when I mentioned that it was tiring to see politics.

Some people did laugh at me when I mentioned something that other people can face, that was why I mentioned it (I can't remember if it was this thread or the one before this that was removed). If people haven't experienced something, all they have to do is ask someone where they experienced it or why they believe it, I think it'd go a long way and both people could come away learning something new. Any who I hope you have a good evening, no hard feelings.

That's fair, and I appreciate you being receptive to what I'm saying. Some people are just looking to troll, but if it's worth anything, I don't think you're one of them. No hard feelings here either.