#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

I think the PLD rework was nice. It made more sense and was a lot less janky. The rotation was very different, sure, but classes change rotation every few levels when leveling, for example, anyway.

I still don't know why SE should really change WHM. What's wrong with having a pure healer that is simple, intuitive, and straight to the point?

Not everything has to be a thesis for string theory and a million interactions and things to keep track of to be "interesting".

I do however, agree that they should rethink in some way to make synch down to low levels a lot more engaging and interesting. Because classes are done to function best at max level, synch down feels like garbage.

I don't know what solution they could implement, to allow to still keep low-level content relevant and also just not slap a sync similar to GW2 for example.

WHM is at a point where if they won’t change the content design then WHM needs to change out of necessity. WHM is the closest this game has to a useless class considering it’s (limited) potential niches are all simply things the games design does not care about. It’s the modern healer equivalent of the HW PLD problem; fiercely powerful in a very narrow niche that simply has no practical application and “fine at best annoyance at worst” in every other situation

It’s a difficulty thing to balance because WHM is well loved by its playerbase, but not particularly well loved outside of it. Normally I’d be totally fine to go “if you don’t like it don’t play it” but WHM’s design affects the other healers as well. With two equally competant players (hell an orange WHM and a blue AST for a more extreme example) AST is simply better in every way for the shield healer. No other job exists in a situation where its mere existence simply makes others jobs harder.

I don’t necessarily believe WHM should be changed if it’s playerbase doesn’t want it changed but nor do I believe it’s fair on the part of the shield healers to have to routinely deal with a class who’s identity can be best summed up as “I externalise my own complexity onto the shield healer”

[ForsakenRoe]

I think the PLD rework was nice. It made more sense and was a lot less janky. The rotation was very different, sure, but classes change rotation every few levels when leveling, for example, anyway.

I still don't know why SE should really change WHM. What's wrong with having a pure healer that is simple, intuitive, and straight to the point?
Not everything has to be a thesis for string theory and a million interactions and things to keep track of to be "interesting".

I do however, agree that they should rethink in some way to make synch down to low levels a lot more engaging and interesting. Because classes are done to function best at max level, synch down feels like garbage.
I don't know what solution they could implement, to allow to still keep low-level content relevant and also just not slap a sync similar to GW2 for example.

The issue is, when it comes to healers, that for some, the rotation (in terms of GCDs) stops changing at level four.

I might be biased when I look at it, but I think that even with the listed changes, WHM would remain simple, intuitive and straight to the point. What string theory and million interactions did I list? That casting spells would build a gauge? In fact, one bizarre 'unintuitive' quirk would actually be fixed with those changes: Medica1 is 15y range, Medica2/Medica3/Rapture are all 20y range. With those changes, Medica1 would also presumably be made to be 20y so that it can smoothy upgrade to Medica2 without suddenly changing in range.

My suggestion is already given: Lower level versions of abilities, that later upgrade into what we know now. Divine Seal used to exist. It was removed, and replaced with the role action Largesse. That was then removed, and WHM gained Temperance. All three of these actions had the effect of 'increases Healing Magic potency by X%'. So, just reintroduce Divine Seal at like, level 40, and have it upgrade to Temperance at level 80, where it would gain the mitigative effect in addition to the Healing Magic part. We see this already with our attacks (Stone 1/2/3/4, Glare/Glare3), or the new tank 2min CDs (their 30%s have become 40%s, plus gained a bonus effect depending on the Tank), or Inner Beast upgrading to Fell Cleave, or Edge/Flood of Darkness upgrading to Edge/Flood of Shadow, or Danger Zone upgrading to Blasting Zone, or Raw Intuition upgrading to Bloodwhetting, or Sheltron into Holy Sheltron, or MNK's chakra spenders (Steel Peak/Howling Fist) upgrading into TFC/Enlightenment, or SMN's summons going from Carbuncles, to Egis, to Demiprimals. So just do the same with the Healer kits. Or at the very least, spread the existing actions out better

edit

WHM is at a point where if they won’t change the content design then WHM needs to change out of necessity

It’s a difficulty thing to balance because WHM is well loved by its playerbase, but not particularly well loved outside of it

This tier has really felt to me like the dev team tested the content with an AST/SGE comp. WHM and SCH (can't speak to AST, I don't play it since the rework) really feel like they're designed for older versions of the game, and if they're updating the battle design to be more modern, then the healer designs will need to change, out of necessity, to keep up, else they'll just feel clunky and out of place whenever we do newer fights

Funny thing, AST has more recorded clears than WHM in this tier. Is this because AST is so good at certain things (eg add phase M6S), because WHM is not so good at said things, because AST's rework is a shining success, or some other factor we are not privy to? Who knows

As for 'WHM is 'fiercely powerful in a very narrow niche that simply has no practical application and “fine at best annoyance at worst” in every other situation', even that 'fiercely powerful' part is debatable. It has always annoyed me that the reasoning of 'why is WHM regarded as the king of HPS' boils down to 'it can spam Cure3'. Yeh, and you run completely out of MP after casting it 7 times. Meanwhile, AST is over here with a potential AOE Benediction via Macrocosmos, SGE has HPS attached to its Mit and Mit attached to its HPS so it literally can't help but 2x the HPS contribution of the Pure Healer at times, and SCH now has a button that not only lets it become the Cure3 spamming WHM, it even has a higher potency than Cure3 when you use it (and it's instantcast!) No matter how you slice it, WHM is just... behind the times, designwise

[klu]

Too bad, it already happened in South Korea (at NCSoft and Kakao Game HQ) and China. (even worse for China, since a player even assaulted with a knife MiHoyo/Hoyoverse founder in their Shanghai HQ because of an update for one of their game XD)

I'm not sure this counts as a win, and I'm not sure it counts as player cooperation.

[Kohashi]

WHM is at a point where if they won’t change the content design then WHM needs to change out of necessity. WHM is the closest this game has to a useless class considering it’s (limited) potential niches are all simply things the games design does not care about. It’s the modern healer equivalent of the HW PLD problem; fiercely powerful in a very narrow niche that simply has no practical application and “fine at best annoyance at worst” in every other situation

It’s a difficulty thing to balance because WHM is well loved by its playerbase, but not particularly well loved outside of it. Normally I’d be totally fine to go “if you don’t like it don’t play it” but WHM’s design affects the other healers as well. With two equally competant players (hell an orange WHM and a blue AST for a more extreme example) AST is simply better in every way for the shield healer. No other job exists in a situation where its mere existence simply makes others jobs harder.

I don’t necessarily believe WHM should be changed if it’s playerbase doesn’t want it changed but nor do I believe it’s fair on the part of the shield healers to have to routinely deal with a class who’s identity can be best summed up as “I externalise my own complexity onto the shield healer”

pure BS and nonsense. whm can do every single piece of content from casual to midcore or hardcore, which to me it means that whm has a good design and is versatile enough to handle all manner of difficulty spikes.

While AST does have more utility, it lacks the pure and sheer HP burst that WHM has. They offer very different gameplay, but ultimately, they fill the same gaps.

The issue is, when it comes to healers, that for some, the rotation (in terms of GCDs) stops changing at level four.

I do personally find it extremely annoying how some reduce healers to "oh I press X times Glare". Yeah, and? Healers are not just "glare," and healing rotations do exist. Talking in such a reductive tone about healers makes the entire argument just stupid.

One thing is certain for me: I don't want to have a full DPS rotation, and I don't want to be just a healer. While design can be improved, I don't think SE did a horrible job in class design.

[Supersnow845]

This tier has really felt to me like the dev team tested the content with an AST/SGE comp. WHM and SCH (can't speak to AST, I don't play it since the rework) really feel like they're designed for older versions of the game, and if they're updating the battle design to be more modern, then the healer designs will need to change, out of necessity, to keep up, else they'll just feel clunky and out of place whenever we do newer fights

Funny thing, AST has more recorded clears than WHM in this tier. Is this because AST is so good at certain things (eg add phase M6S), because WHM is not so good at said things, because AST's rework is a shining success, or some other factor we are not privy to? Who knows

As for 'WHM is 'fiercely powerful in a very narrow niche that simply has no practical application and “fine at best annoyance at worst” in every other situation', even that 'fiercely powerful' part is debatable. It has always annoyed me that the reasoning of 'why is WHM regarded as the king of HPS' boils down to 'it can spam Cure3'. Yeh, and you run completely out of MP after casting it 7 times. Meanwhile, AST is over here with a potential AOE Benediction via Macrocosmos, SGE has HPS attached to its Mit and Mit attached to its HPS so it literally can't help but 2x the HPS contribution of the Pure Healer at times, and SCH now has a button that not only lets it become the Cure3 spamming WHM, it even has a higher potency than Cure3 when you use it (and it's instantcast!) No matter how you slice it, WHM is just... behind the times, designwise

Besides SCH being uniquely awful damage wise at 6’s add phase I think SCH is at the point where it’s so ridiculously powerful they dont actually have to test it. If any healer comp can clear it then SCH will be the strongest healer at it, it’s always been that way. This tier doesn’t really feel like it does anything to help WHM shine but then again when does any tier ever do that

I don’t really think it’s cure 3 that is the core of WHM’s HPS design, it’s simply the fact that when push comes to shove and you need healing RIGHT NOW WHM is uniquely able to dump it out. Sure cure 3 but also rapture, plenary, asylum, temperance, lilybell. No other healer can heal everyone’s HP bars 3 times over in 10 seconds. It’s never a useful ability but it does exist if anyone ever actually asked for it

pure BS and nonsense. whm can do every single piece of content from casual to midcore or hardcore, which to me it means that whm has a good design and is versatile enough to handle all manner of difficulty spikes.

While AST does have more utility, it lacks the pure and sheer HP burst that WHM has. They offer very different gameplay, but ultimately, they fill the same gaps.

Literally every class can do every content, you may as well have said “it has good design because you can select it in the menu”

Regardless WHM is the core of one of the few comps that simply ISNT viable and that’s the double regen healer comp. WHM struggles to actually hold its own in high tier content often overly relying on the shield healer to cover its deficits, AST certainly isn’t the problem in the double regen comp

[BigCheez]

I think the PLD rework was nice. It made more sense and was a lot less janky. The rotation was very different, sure, but classes change rotation every few levels when leveling, for example, anyway.

I still don't know why SE should really change WHM. What's wrong with having a pure healer that is simple, intuitive, and straight to the point?

Not everything has to be a thesis for string theory and a million interactions and things to keep track of to be "interesting".

I do however, agree that they should rethink in some way to make synch down to low levels a lot more engaging and interesting. Because classes are done to function best at max level, synch down feels like garbage.

I don't know what solution they could implement, to allow to still keep low-level content relevant and also just not slap a sync similar to GW2 for example.

The PLD dework was diabolical. They removed everything that made the job unique and interesting and turned it into a boring version of GNB.

[Kohashi]

The PLD dework was diabolical. They removed everything that made the job unique and interesting and turned it into a boring version of GNB.

I'm sure the entire PLD being "excluded" from parties because while it was unique, it just offered nothing special or enough damage to warrant their admission.

Literally every class can do every content, you may as well have said “it has good design because you can select it in the menu”

Regardless WHM is the core of one of the few comps that simply ISNT viable and that’s the double regen healer comp. WHM struggles to actually hold its own in high tier content often overly relying on the shield healer to cover its deficits, AST certainly isn’t the problem in the double regen comp

That's literally it! The entire philosophy behind SE design, to be able to do every content regardless of the class.

You didn't elaborate (unless I missed) how it guts other classes, so I do insist on actually shedding light on what you originally meant. And to add to the elaborate please, do include which high content WHM cannot hold it's own?

While double shield healers has some merits in some places, it's far suboptimal to actually run that opposed to pure + shield.

As for AST, not only do they need a shield to cover their deficit, but they cannot also appropriately respond if things go south. AST will NEVER be able to burst heal with 0 preparation a team the same way WHM can. I know AST is nice but you shit on whm for the wrong reasons..lol.

[Supersnow845]

Like I said WHM relies more heavily on its partner than just about any other pair of classes. WHM is good at pure healing which is basically never needed and bad at mitigation which is always needed. Having to heavily rely on the shield healer doesn’t make it viable, it just increases the stress on the shield healer. WHM simply doesn’t have enough mitigation to compensate for the fact that healers in this game are basically glorified mitigators.

AST gets 3 mitigations per 2 minutes plus an ability to spam shields, WHM gets 2 and they both HAVE to near overlap for some ungodly reason, it’s mitigation capabilities are weaker than some DPS classes and more rigid than any other class in the game (every other class has at least one mitigation on a shorter CD than WHM)

AST and the shield healers simply do not struggle with throughput enough to warrant WHM having so little in the way of useful mitigation in the 1 in 10,000 chance that WHM’s higher HPS might save a run over AST who near equals it in HPS. Thats why I drew the comparison to double regens, because they show that WHM has a deficit. Double shields were meta basically all of EW and only aren’t now because AST is so ridiculous on the damage front. Double regens on the other hand are a meme comp, and AST has basically twice the functional mitigation of WHM. Anecdotal I know but I don’t know a single shield healer main who actively wants a WHM over an AST, hell half of them want the other shield healer over WHM

It’s just very hard to see if you haven’t seen it from the shield healers side that WHM is very good at making you think you are contributing while in reality you are just making the shield healers job harder, doing 80% of the “work” AST does forcing the shield healers to do 120% to keep up

And this isn’t even actually WHM’s fault, it has strengths but square refuses to design encounters to play to them. I’d rather square ups damage to make WHM’s contribution more useful over making it a pseudo shield healer like AST, but until they do that WHM just doesn’t bring anything to the table

[Kohashi]

Like I said WHM relies more heavily on its partner than just about any other pair of classes. WHM is good at pure healing which is basically never needed and bad at mitigation which is always needed. Having to heavily rely on the shield healer doesn’t make it viable, it just increases the stress on the shield healer. WHM simply doesn’t have enough mitigation to compensate for the fact that healers in this game are basically glorified mitigators.

what?????? What 3 mits/ 2 minutes? Are you counting CU twice?

Also, I have NEVER seen 2 AST in a party in high-end content, just the same way I have never seen 2 WHM, why would you even want or measure the class design on such a flawed premise? What's even the point of it?

I am seriously debating wether you ever did any high content where you weren't severely overcapped for it because it sounds to me that way.

The reason why AST has "3" mitigations is that it severely lacks burst heal, while WHM does not, so it needs to buy time for the regen or spells, to reach its full potential.

As for the :

It’s just very hard to see if you haven’t seen it from the shield healers side that WHM is very good at making you think you are contributing while in reality you are just making the shield healers job harder, doing 80% of the “work” AST does forcing the shield healers to do 120% to keep up

Their entire existence, AST or WHM, is to fill in gaps. AST or WHM will always be secondary and in the background, while shields are the main healers. Even if you are AST, will will NEVER be the main healer. You exist to provide HP and restore whatever is left after shield healers did their stuff for the mechanic. Both AST and WHM do that just fine and approach the issue differently. It doesn't mean AST or WHM are useless just because they are in the "background". Each has to do their role equally to provide.

[BigCheez]

I'm sure the entire PLD being "excluded" from parties because while it was unique, it just offered nothing special or enough damage to warrant their admission.

Didn't happen outside of week 1 P8S.

They could have made smaller changes to adjust the damage profile without gutting the entire job. Or perhaps had the foresight to realise that making the whole game revolve around 2 minute burst windows might not be the best idea.