#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Aravell]

I think if the JP side were very against the state of Healers too, they'd maybe be more receptive to the idea of 'someone coming in and saying 'hey I've got ideas on how we could fix some of the problems''. But, if the general consensus over there is that there's no problem in the first place, I expect what I have to say would come off as very tone-deaf, pot-stirring for no reason, etc.

Last time I checked, they are actually very against the state of the healer role, the problems they have with the role touch on some stuff we have problems with too, like being invalidated as a role, having nothing to heal, etc.

They do put far less emphasis on the damage side of the kit though. It's not that they absolutely hate having an expanded damage kit, it's more that they don't think much about it, it's just filler, something to press when there's nothing important to do.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Last I saw, in this thread even, the JP community was very anti-healer strike and we're against any kind of changes that would improve its dps rotation.

Could things have changed in the last few months? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. They also don't like it when "gaijins" go over to their side of the forums for any reason.

Also, JP posting criticism on 2/5chan doesn't help when the Devs only see JP praising the braindead gameplay on the official forums.

If I recall correctly, they weren't against #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE per sec. The Japanese community was against the idea that adding damage rotations was the way to improve the state of healers. They don't want green damage dealers.

Overall, the Japanese community felt healers should be more relaxing to play than damage dealers and tanks. I have to say I agree with them on that point.

Our role depends largely on the actions of others. We restore health. As such, it would counterproductive to make healers intricate to play when the main focus of our job is decision making.

[MisterNublet]

If I recall correctly, they weren't against #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE per sec. The Japanese community was against the idea that adding damage rotations was the way to improve the state of healers. They don't want green damage dealers.

Overall, the Japanese community felt healers should be more relaxing to play than damage dealers and tanks. I have to say I agree with them on that point.

Our role depends largely on the actions of others. We restore health. As such, it would counterproductive to make healers intricate to play when the main focus of our job is decision making.

They don't want green damage dealers, but they also don't want to have to heal. What they really want is a role that they can get carried through content on while AFKing to watch anime on a second monitor.

They want the role to be completely and utterly braindead. Which they have accomplished, hence why they're against any kind of changes to the role.

This is why the trinity system is dead in this game and why we now have blue healers/damage dealers and red healers/mitigations, because CBU3 had to give away the healers function to other roles to cover for lazy healers.

Also, knowing when to dps and when to heal is part of a decision making process.

[ForsakenRoe]

Last time I checked, they are actually very against the state of the healer role, the problems they have with the role touch on some stuff we have problems with too, like being invalidated as a role, having nothing to heal, etc.

They do put far less emphasis on the damage side of the kit though. It's not that they absolutely hate having an expanded damage kit, it's more that they don't think much about it, it's just filler, something to press when there's nothing important to do.

That's a fairly understandable stance to have on it all, but it leads to me wondering 'So then, why don't we have systems that incentivize us to heal more, such as WOW's Heal Absorbs?' The argument of 'more damage buttons' versus 'more healing required' will rage on until the game dies, but what I expect everyone, JP EN and Martians alike, can agree on is 'getting 'nothing' is the worst possible option', but that seems to be what SE's trying to give us. No new damage buttons for the rotation, no more healing requirements. DT finally adds some damage actions, and they're the most 'walk on eggshells' approach possible, with two of them being useable only once every 2 minutes (SCH/ASTs), and all four having zero interplay with the rest of our kit. Is it too much to ask, for Psyche to at least trigger Kardia? Was it too much, for it to be 30s CD and 300p, instead of 60/600p?

Our role depends largely on the actions of others. We restore health. As such, it would counterproductive to make healers intricate to play when the main focus of our job is decision making.

Part of the way to handle this, I think, would be for the DPS side of things to 'help' with our Healing in various ways. Things like 'If you deal damage, you build a gauge that can be spent on a damage-neutral Healing move'. But, to make such a system not 'feel like it's forcing you to DPS', you could also have Healing build the gauge, and at a much faster rate. That way, if a player is using 'damage-negative Healing tools' like Medica, they're getting to the 'damage neutral Healing tool' faster, thereby helping them to keep their damage up

'Intricacy' is completely fine, on any Job, so long as it's 'optional' I think. BLM having Nonstandard is fine in my view, so long as Nonstandard's performance output is within an acceptable margin of the Standard rotation. The issue is, the playerbase has no nuance on the matter. Either you do the absolute perfect 'optimal rotation' and do maximum damage, or you're 'playing wrong'. For example, some people in SB felt they needed to learn TK rotation for MNK. I know a guy who was insistent on not learning it because he thought it was dumb, too much effort for not enough gain, etc. So he raided using the old 'standard' rotation and got Oranges anyway

'Intricacy' on Healers is entirely achievable, it just requires SE to intelligently balance the potencies of any new DPS additions. Here, my SGE ask:
Give us two new actions on SGE, Neuralgia and Myasthenia. One's a cone, one's a line AOE. They have 20s CD, and can hold up to 2 charges each. They deal 20p more than Dosis at any given level (so at max, that'd be 390p). When you use one, it applies a debuff of the same name to enemies hit, that reduces their autoattack damage by 3%. When you apply Myasthenia on a target suffering Neuralgia, or vice versa, the debuff's potency is increased to a 5% autoattack damage reduction effect, and the potency of the triggering attack is increased by 10p. This means that you'd want to, for maximum damage, alternate between the two actions (akin to something like Reaper's Enshroud, or MCH's OGCDs in Hypercharge).

These two actions would be used for optimizing (because they deal more damage), but are entirely ignoreable for the sake of enrage timers. Ignoring them both completely, for an entire 10min fight, would be a total loss of 30p, per spell, per 20s. So, 60p lost, a total of 30 times over the fight, is 1800p. Which sounds like a lot, until you realize that how many casts of Dosis that value is equal to. 5, five, casts of Dosis would total up to 1850p! Over 10mins that's absolutely nothing, Crit/DHit Variance on your Phlegmas could cost you more damage than that!

[Nadda]

They don't want green damage dealers, but they also don't want to have to heal. What they really want is a role that they can get carried through content on while AFKing to watch anime on a second monitor.

They want the role to be completely and utterly braindead. Which they have accomplished, hence why they're against any kind of changes to the role.

This is why the trinity system is dead in this game and why we now have blue healers/damage dealers and red healers/mitigations, because CBU3 had to give away the healers function to other roles to cover for lazy healers.

Also, knowing when to dps and when to heal is part of a decision making process.

This is why I think your cause might be better suited to getting the message of the Western player base translated and represented on Japanese forums.

Even now, I don’t necessarily agree with a lot of the Healer Strike points—especially as a Whitemage main (I’ve exclusively played Whitemage… as in, I hadn’t leveled any other jobs until Endwalker).

But even with my confidence in the devs, I do have this suspicion: they seem to be more receptive to their native-speaking audience than to the Western one, regardless of size. (Arguments aside on how bad a practice that may be, if true.)

Foreigners raising hell might not be the best approach. Obviously, it should be respectful. If someone could find a way to communicate this portion of the community’s message on our behalf, it could be fruitful.

Because, frankly, I think the community managers on the Western side are probably just collecting a paycheck. They likely don’t even understand the depth of sentiment we have here because it’s not being relayed properly.

Everywhere you look, you can find critique—even if you're not actively searching for it. I can’t believe it’s being ignored; it’s more likely that it’s just not being understood because no one’s relaying it back to the devs in a way they can digest.

Again, what else do people have to lose, other than potentially ruffling some feathers in the Japanese community? The Healstriker feathers have already been ruffled, after all—they didn’t draw first blood.

In any effort to make change, especially when you're trying to shake things up or spark a "Strike," sometimes you need to agitate a little to get your point across. If it’s done strategically, that agitation can serve as a wake-up call, even if it ruffles a few feathers along the way.

[Supersnow845]

Jp is very insular on the their forums. While when a JP person comes here we usually go “more people to talk to” if we go there they basically say “why aren’t you on the EN forums”. I know alot of comments in the JP forums that got progressively deleted as they were deemed to be from people who had no “reason” to be on the JP forums

The one time this didn’t seem to happen was during the character upgrade beta but that was more because JP itself was happy to bend the rules to get more feedback out there to get change. In a situation like this where we are more annoyed than JP they’d at best go “well we are happy” at worst go “why are you on the JP forums report”

[Azurarok]

Had to dig it up but it's probably worth reading through the topic made on the JP boards again (assuming the machine translations are decent enough)

Some brush it off like we got on this thread too, but the discussions get pretty in depth and they hit a lot of the same notes we do, including job homogenization and fight design in general being an issue. Some mention they haven't even really thought about it until then and are inclined to agree with it.

I think we tend to agree that the problems are real at least.

[Aravell]

Had to dig it up but it's probably worth reading through the topic made on the JP boards again (assuming the machine translations are decent enough)

Some brush it off like we got on this thread too, but the discussions get pretty in depth and they hit a lot of the same notes we do, including job homogenization and fight design in general being an issue. Some mention they haven't even really thought about it until then and are inclined to agree with it.

I think we tend to agree that the problems are real at least.

There's probably a small clump of people on JP that dismiss everything and say "Well, I like not needing to heal so I can just relax in my roulettes", just like we have some over here on the EN forums too.

But I think most people from any region do agree that what we have now isn't great at all and something needs to change.

[Maltothoris]

Seems we all agree there is an issue but how to fix it is the main problem. Also, I just remember the question from a whilr ago asking for a whm rework.

Q8: Will we have rework on WHM?
Answer: On your question on WHM rework, it's hard to define what exactly rework is. While there will be adjustments, if you're asking about what will be changed, then we are considering a lot of changes including other jobs as well. While this will take a while, we plan to make it a reality one day

[BigCheez]

They don't want green damage dealers, but they also don't want to have to heal. What they really want is a role that they can get carried through content on while AFKing to watch anime on a second monitor.

They want the role to be completely and utterly braindead. Which they have accomplished, hence why they're against any kind of changes to the role.

This is why the trinity system is dead in this game and why we now have blue healers/damage dealers and red healers/mitigations, because CBU3 had to give away the healers function to other roles to cover for lazy healers.

Also, knowing when to dps and when to heal is part of a decision making process.

What decision making?

"Hmm... Should I cast Glare or Glare?"

Incoming damage is so predictable in FFXIV that there is no decision making unless something has gone horribly wrong. And even then, in casual content, the problem is usually solved by pressing a single AOE heal button. Things need to have somehow gone catastrophically wrong to the extent that 6/8 players (including your cohealer) are dead before any real decision making needs to happen, and you'll see a situation like that in maybe 1 in 50 duties.