#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Azurarok]

It's pretty glaring that Variant Dungeons could invalidate roles with just a pair of skills that you could use for no real reason

[ForsakenRoe]

Regarding the argument of healer vs tank damage:

If the displayed damage gap between healer and tank in other games is 30-40% but their healers also operate under the principle of expected damage loss due to spending actions on healing instead of damage, that would logically put them much closer in damage output than people think.

If let's say a healer in another game has the opportunity to spend 95% of their actions on their damage spells, that would probably put them much closer to the tank in terms of output.

In the obvious example of 'other MMO', checking the logs for Normal mode of the raid (heavily outgeared at this point and most likely to have people with high parses just chadding and doing nothing but damage GCDs), the Healers are between 30-50% of the Tank damage, and that's bearing in mind that some of the healers (the top 3 results being MW Monk (by a large margin for some reason), Holy Paladin, Disc Priest in that order) all have either 'some amount of incentive to deal damage as part of their healing rotation', or in Disc's case, it's literally 'how they heal'.

Checking 'number of GCDs used on 'not damage' actions' for some runs, some high parse% examples have around 30% 'non damage' GCDs for a HPal, about 25% for a Disc Priest (they have to use some to apply Atonement), but a MW Monk had like, 7% of their GCDs spent on 'not damage', and in NM mode, MW was the closest to the Tanks, at around 50%. Healers there simply do less damage as a ratio of Tank potential, even in content where they can completely tunnelvision on damage, but it works fine there because for situations like levelling, soloing, etc, they are able to swap spec to a DPS spec to kill stuff and progress the story. Here in FFXIV, our issue is that every job needs to be able to clear the story, under the assumption that 'the player has only one job unlocked, and they chose a Healer', so our Healers need to be able to do as much damage as they do to make solo encounters etc. not take 10 minutes per mob

Again though, my take on the issue is 'I don't care if us Healers 10% behind, or 50% behind, or equal with Tank damage in FFXIV', because in a hypothetical world where we DO get buffed to the point where we do Tank levels of damage, what changes for us? That sluggish, monotonous, 7-8 minute solo instance in the story, now takes 5:30-6 minutes instead? That doesn't sound good, or even fix the issues. The monotony existing at all is the issue, not 'how long the monotony lasts'. I don't want 5-6 minutes of monotony, I don't want ANY monotony forced upon me! Making the monotony last less time is 'technically an improvement' (in that you get out of it faster) over the current form, yes, but surely it'd be better to... make it not monotonous in the first place, by adjusting our gameplay so that it's 7-8 minutes of fun gameplay for players of all skill levels? Also, bringing Healer damage up to Tank levels will just get the Tanks complaining that 'why do I have to do a rotation when the stupid WHM can just spam Glare and do the same DPS as me' like they did in SHB.

It's a 'solution' that doesn't really fix the underlying issue, and also runs the risk of causing animosity between players of certain Roles as an added bonus

Tanks don't actually need to do damage to generate Enmity... They could just as well remove most of their attacks and bring back Flash

It is a little odd to me, that some suggest that 'Healers should only heal, like the good old days in MMOs', which A: the 'good old days' included a point where your gameplay as a Holy Paladin was 'press Holy Light (Cure2) on the MT over and over (and it happens to deal splash healing to nearby allies)' which sounds awful, and B: Tanking at one point in the 'good old days' was 'Press Sunder Armour over and over to build a flat amount of Threat per press (like Flash but single target), and tab to each mob to Sunder it individually if you're in an AOE pull because Thunder Clap was terrible at Threat generation'. Somehow, we've got the conflicting stances that 'Healing should go backwards in design to those times', but 'Tanking should not, because those times were bad design and they hadn't worked out what they were doing yet'.

Additionally, some suggest 'Healers should only heal', with examples of gameplay that'd bring, such as 'needing to use more GCDs on healing, such that Healing GCDs are a higher percentage of your total casts than your Damage GCDs'. Or 'You would need to carefully manage your MP so you don't run out, by using more efficient healing options to conserve MP when you can (eg: actually utilizing Freecure?)' And this just sounds like 'make it like WOW: Cataclysm', which... to my understanding, didn't go so well for WOW when they tried it, back in the original release of Cataclysm

Lastly, I have experienced 'there's so much healing required of you, you won't even have time to deal damage' because of this in OSRS:

At Level 1 in the role (of which there are 5), you heal for 5 HP each time you use your healing potion flask on an ally. Each 'heal' instance can only occur once per 'tick' (actions are processed once per 0.6s), effectively giving you a GCD of 0.6s. Your flask can only hold 4 charges of 'healing', and must be refilled from a pool at the south of the arena when it runs out. The last wave of the minigame has a boss that summons adds (once per 6s, with a maximum of 4 adds active at once), each of which can hit you for up to 7 damage. Additionally, the boss itself can hit you for up to 13, and attacks everyone at once. For players who come in unprepared in terms of defences, trying to just get one run on each role done for a certain reward (a chestpiece we call the Fighter Torso, that boosts your melee damage a little bit), it's easy for them to get torn to shreds by the rapid attacks in the final wave.

I had a run where I was a Level 1 in the Healer Role (meaning I heal 5HP per 'GCD'), and our team had a guy who was very underlevelled, and very undergeared. Adamant Chestplate, Rune Platelegs, 43HP, we were basically doing a 'boosting run' for the guy but without anyone getting paid for the service. I had to spend almost all of my time frantically trying to keep this guy topped up as the Queen shot him (regularly hitting him for 12-13 per hit every 3 seconds or so), trying to keep myself alive, trying to keep my allies alive, and all of this at the same time as me needing to do my own Healer-specific part of the preparation of the Omega Egg to kill the Queen (Healers have to be given the eggs by the Collector, dunk the eggs in poison, then hand them off to the Attacker). I did, in fact, have to 'heal so much, I don't even have time to do my damage related actions'

I'll admit, it was fun in its own way, as a one-time run. But I was fully aware as I did it, that the run was a one-off, as completing that run would let me increase my Healer Role Level (meaning I'd heal 10 per GCD instead of 5), making all future runs easier. Trying to imagine that level of stress, every single run, of ANY content in FFXIV, even something like an EX roulette (instead of just super-high stuff like Week 1 Savage or Ultimate)? I don't think we'd be able to sustain a Healer playerbase if there's that much focus/skill demanded of the player, in all aspects of the game, everyone would get burned out so fast from how mentally taxing even doing our weekly tome grinds would be. Also I was completely drained after completing that run, so translating that to FFXIV terms it'd be 'I do one EX roulette and then I'm too mentally taxed to partake in any other content for the day'

[Dante131]

Speaking of WoW, DT made me try it out, and I’ve played several healing roles there by now. I actually find myself enjoying healing more in WoW than in FFXIV, and the simple reason is that I feel like I have a real purpose in the group. There’s only one scenario where a group wouldn’t need me as a healer in WoW, and that’s if it’s a full level 10 group, because scaling is a bit of a mess.

Here’s the thing: I always have plenty to do besides dealing a bit of damage with my skills. Sure, I still deal damage, and depending on the group, it’s more or less, but that’s not my main purpose. My primary role is curing diseases, healing HP, and buffing my team. That’s my purpose in WoW, with dealing damage being something I only do when there’s nothing else to handle.

A big plus is that there’s no tank class with a "Benediction" equivalent during trash pulls every 15 seconds. Sure, Death Knights can heal themselves once a minute like a god, but that’s it. It just feels more rewarding to be part of a group in WoW, and I kind of hate it because it constantly reminds me of how differently healers are treated, not just by the dev teams, but also by the communities.

I’ve had several experiences in WoW where the healer focused solely on healing, and you know what? Most groups are fine with it. They understand that without the healer, they’d die like flies. In FFXIV, it’s the complete opposite. It’s like, “Let’s get rid of the healer who isn’t spamming Gravity, Holy, Art of War, or whatever the Sage AoE is called, and just move on because Warrior is a better healer anyway.”

[Supersnow845]

People would be fine with healers only healing……..if 14’s content put out more than one raidwide a minute the PLD can heal the party through with veil

[Tigore]

It looked like Roe was giving evidence and details that she wants to make sure both the healer and damage kits are fun for our FF14 healers. If the Devs actually made it like "old WoW", we basically switch from Glare spam to Cure / Cure 2 spam >.> Back to square 1 with 1 button spam.

[Dante131]

People would be fine with healers only healing……..if 14’s content put out more than one raidwide a minute the PLD can heal the party through with veil

agree but still there would be people dislikes this playstyle

[ForsakenRoe]

It looked like Roe was giving evidence and details that she wants to make sure both the healer and damage kits are fun for our FF14 healers.

Yes, mostly this, but I'm also very cautious/worried/etc. that increasing the amount of healing required, could have negative repercussions for certain skill levels of players. Missing some GCDs of damage means you clear the dungeon slower. Missing some GCDs of healing could lead to a wipe. Additionally, the amount of 'increase to healing required', required to make 'healing an EX roulette' engaging, would vary heavily between players. I've done Ultimates, so the factor by which healing pressure would have to increase, to make me engaged in an EX roulette, would be higher than some other players who have not done Ultimates. So, does the increase cater to those players, leaving someone like me unsatisfied (and therefore isn't a 'solution' for a section of the playerbase, because the problem still remains)? Or does it cater to someone like me, and those players who are less hardcore are now unable to clear even the most basic content?

I think that this shows, 'increase healing requirements' can be a factor in changing the design to make the Healer role more engaging, but it can't be the only factor. Too many variables can cause the 'solution's effect' to be lessened or removed entirely. For example, if I go into EX roulette, get the new dungeon, and I'm Minimum Item Level to get in for whatever reason, it might be a hard won victory, and the healing-requirements-only update is good. But if I go into that same dungeon with my Savage gear, because I happen to be a player that partakes in Savage, then the healing is a doddle once again, because I have more stats on my gear. And this isn't limited to just my gear, my party's gear also affects how easy/hard it is to heal the content

Also, people aren't robots, and their performance can vary from day to day. I'm affected by this too, some days I'm mentally fit enough to, say, heal Savage for reclears (or in the case of week 1, actually prog Savage as a Healer). On other days, I have brainfog enough that I struggle to beat the Shadowlord, the bloody 24man boss, without getting hit by at least one of the cleaves. If an increase to healing requirements occured (with the increase being large enough to be 'the entire solution to the Healer role issues'), would I be able to clear the content only on a 'good day', and a 'bad day' means I fall under the required performance level?

IDK I'm probably rambling, but the idea that increasing healing requirements should be the only aspect to the solution has never sat right with me. It feels like it'd just cause more problems than we already have

[Absurdity]

It looked like Roe was giving evidence and details that she wants to make sure both the healer and damage kits are fun for our FF14 healers. If the Devs actually made it like "old WoW", we basically switch from Glare spam to Cure / Cure 2 spam >.> Back to square 1 with 1 button spam.

Don't forget the part where you have to do nothing for 5 seconds after every Cure to let your MP regen, lol.

[Kohashi]

While I understand why people want to have more fun while playing their classes, I don't understand why people want this game to be a copy of an X game. If the combat/healing is more engaging for you there, just play that game.

I would like to actually see more innovation, a different approach, and a way to make things engaging. Also, keep in mind this game generally doesn't have the target audience set on people who have played every single piece of content for 11 years.

Making classes overcomplicated and with a zillion systems to watch for and manage will eventually just drive out a lot of "casual" players and some roles will see significant shortages. Healing by definition is the hardest job simply because you aren't just responsible for yourself but also for everyone else. Playing a healer is a completely different experience than playing a DPS for example in terms of how fights go.

PS: In case it needs to be spelled out, I don't mean classes should be braindead either.

[Aravell]

I don't know about anyone else, but the only game I want FFXIV to be a copy of is Stormblood (because Heavensward is out of the question).