They forgot Ranged Physical is a role in the game

[AmiableApkallu]

To me, the mechanic feel more reminiscent of bow, and firearm mechanics that show up in other games. Like how with most bows, you have to manually pull back the string before letting go of an arrow or like when you scope in or aim down sights with various firearms in shooters. It's like they finally figured out how to give BRD, and MCH 'aiming' mechanics.

I could be supportive of this general notion if there were three tiers:

1. Actions that are instant.
2. Actions with a cast time that still allow you to move, albeit slowly.
3. Actions with a cast time that require you to stand in one spot.

If "aiming" is truly to be a mechanic in this game, then it should have at least three levels of gradation.

But at that point, I would ask: Why shouldn't magical-ranged jobs also have the same amount of gradation in their spells? And given that, what should actually differentiate physical ranged from magical ranged?

[mallleable]

I could be supportive of this general notion if there were three tiers:

1. Actions that are instant.
2. Actions with a cast time that still allow you to move, albeit slowly.
3. Actions with a cast time that require you to stand in one spot.

If "aiming" is truly to be a mechanic in this game, then it should have at least three levels of gradation.

But at that point, I would ask: Why shouldn't magical-ranged jobs also have the same amount of gradation in their spells? And given that, what should actually differentiate physical ranged from magical ranged?

The already kinda do.

1. Instant casts (PCT's Hammer combo, RDM's melee combo, and finishers, Paradox, Despair, Xenoglossy, etc on BLM, SMN)
2. Short casts (PCT's RGB spells, RDM, Jolt, fire, and earth spells, BLM ice spells under certain conditions)
3. Long casts (PCT's motifs, RDM's aero, and thunder spells, the rest BLM)

I think it would just come down to aesthetics. Like wanting to play a marksman or a mage being a similar choice between playing a striking melee or a scouting melee dps where it just comes down rotational differences, and aesthetic taste. It technically would be a form of homogenization, making physical, and magical ranged more interchangeable with each other. But if giving phys ranged 'aiming' mechanics that happen to resemble casting mechanics strengthens the mechanical identity as well as being able to increase their fire power for phys ranged then I think the pros outweigh the cons. Walking cast BRD would play totally differently from PCT, and walking cast MCH would play totally different from BLM.

I think action mechanics like cast times should be role-agnostic, and should be considered on a per job basis. Removing the cast times on SAM's Iajutsus just because it has some overlap with magical ranged DPS or undoing the Tsubame-gaeshi changes because it's like RDM's Dual Cast would make it a worse job, and so it should keep them. So if giving BRD, and MCH walking casts potentially makes them better jobs then the overlap with magical ranged should not be a problem.

[Supersnow845]

I don't think the addition of a few walking casts on select Physical Ranged jobs will destroy the role, but it will make more people questioning why a 25 APM PCT simultaneously out-damages and out-supports a 45 APM MCH while not having to give up their mid-combat coffee breaks between burst windows. You just need to systematically remove their excuses until there's no defense, and then players will stop defending it. It was the same way for Living Dead as well, it was only when Holmgang was buffed to the point that nobody could deny that it was unilaterally broken in early Endwalker that Living Dead got rectified. Until then you still had people trying to justify it as being balanced.

I normally don’t like reopening arguments but this point literally makes zero sense. You’ve contradicted yourself within a single paragraph

“We need to remove the excuses of a job with low APM (side note why are you so convinced that APM is directly proportional to difficulty) being allowed to do so much damage and the way to show this is to………lower the APM of an existing job by giving it a similar casting mechanic to the job we are trying to show is overpowered for its APM”

Either PCT’s APM/DPS profile is not overpowered (or swap in BLM and make the same argument) or otherwise lowering MCH’s APM to give it casts constitutes an example of making it easier; not harder. I physically don’t see how you can argue both ways here

[Aravell]

So the idea is to give PVE BRD, and MCH walking casts like they do currently in PVP. Every skill wouldn't become a walking cast, only the filler.

I have to ask here, why force BRD and MCH to have the same system again? A lot of the issues the physical ranged role faced in HW was precisely because they changed BRD to match MCH.

I'd rather see every job within the role diversified instead. MCH can have a walkcast filler and maybe some tools too, BRD can remain the speed demon APM proc spam job, DNC can remain the slow and chill 1 (proc 2) combo 3 (proc 4) job.

I think that would satisfy more of the people who play the role rather than forcing BRD and MCH into the same peg again and making the same mistake as HW design did (I personally enjoyed bowmage, but I still see the massive mistake of forcing parity between BRD and MCH rather than allowing them to grow separately).

[mallleable]

I have to ask here, why force BRD and MCH to have the same system again? A lot of the issues the physical ranged role faced in HW was precisely because they changed BRD to match MCH.

I'd rather see every job within the role diversified instead. MCH can have a walkcast filler and maybe some tools too, BRD can remain the speed demon APM proc spam job, DNC can remain the slow and chill 1 (proc 2) combo 3 (proc 4) job.

I think that would satisfy more of the people who play the role rather than forcing BRD and MCH into the same peg again and making the same mistake as HW design did (I personally enjoyed bowmage, but I still see the massive mistake of forcing parity between BRD and MCH rather than allowing them to grow separately).

My ideal bow mechanic for BRD would one where you press, and hold down a button with a UI element that fills up depending on how long you have held down the button, and then it deals damage upon releasing the button, and the attack's power is dependent on how much meter you built up from holding down the button. Think like how Hanzo's bow works from Overwatch or like how the Sniper's Huntsman unlock works from Team Fortress 2. However, I think such a system would run into a ton of problems like GCD clipping, and accidental 'tap fires' because the server or your ISP had a hiccup. FFXIV is just not equipped for such granularity. Walking cast basically automates such a mechanic, and in my mind feel like they were made for PVP BRD first, then given to MCH, but they also happen to work on both jobs. And I fully admit that PVP BRD gave me a taste for blood on my favorite job, and now I want that power in PVE. lol

[Valence]

It's a bit odd that having a cast bar automatically turns a job into a 'Caster'. Is RPR a 'Caster'? Is SAM a 'Caster'?

Well then if it just takes adding a couple of casts per minute ala SAM/RPR to rphys to magically fix everything and remove the tax, hell yeah, consider me sold.

[Valence]

Walking casts were introduced in Endwalker during the 6.1 PVP rework, and only appeared on the PVP versions of BRD, and MCH. The tooltip states "Requires casting time to execute. However, it is possible to walk while casting." They follow similar rules to regular casts, but in practice they play differently. So the idea is to give PVE BRD, and MCH walking casts like they do currently in PVP. Every skill wouldn't become a walking cast, only the filler. I never got to play phys ranged in Heavensward, but I imagine that walking cast phys ranged made today would play very differently than full cast phys ranged back then.

It would play the same. Same cast times, same weave window. Whether one is harder to cancel than the other is relatively irrelevant.

The only reason it worked on MCH somewhat but not BRD was because of ammo, which is now gone from the game.

The already kinda do. But if giving phys ranged 'aiming' mechanics that happen to resemble casting mechanics strengthens the mechanical identity as well as being able to increase their fire power for phys ranged then I think the pros outweigh the cons. Walking cast BRD would play totally differently from PCT, and walking cast MCH would play totally different from BLM.

Like BLM plays differently from RDM or PCT? I'm not sure that argument holds that much water seen from the other persoective..

My ideal bow mechanic for BRD would one where you press, and hold down a button with a UI element that fills up depending on how long you have held down the button, and then it deals damage upon releasing the button, and the attack's power is dependent on how much meter you built up from holding down the button. Think like how Hanzo's bow works from Overwatch or like how the Sniper's Huntsman unlock works from Team Fortress 2. However, I think such a system would run into a ton of problems like GCD clipping, and accidental 'tap fires' because the server or your ISP had a hiccup. FFXIV is just not equipped for such granularity. Walking cast basically automates such a mechanic, and in my mind feel like they were made for PVP BRD first, then given to MCH, but they also happen to work on both jobs. And I fully admit that PVP BRD gave me a taste for blood on my favorite job, and now I want that power in PVE. lol

Personally I'm not sure I started playing XIV because it shared a model with FPS games or overwatch... But with more traditional RPGs.

[Carighan]

Personally I'm not sure I started playing XIV because it shared a model with FPS games or overwatch... But with more traditional RPGs.

Yeah, agreed.

I want my jobs to feel different because of different base approaches to their ability usage, whereas right now ~everyone is based on a static rotation (even the seemingly-proc-based Red Mage and seemingly-priority-based Dancer follow 95%+ rigid rotations with marginal changes), but beyond that I want it to be "just" an MMORPG first and foremost. Not something wild that makes socialization impossible as I have to step away from the computer and pick up my keytar-controller to play Bard.

[mallleable]

I have to step away from the computer and pick up my keytar-controller to play Bard.

BRD is a musician job, I don't see why this is a problem!

[BabyYoda]

BRD is a musician job, I don't see why this is a problem!

If BRD is musician and DNC is a dancer then we need a singer job so we can have a band!