They forgot Ranged Physical is a role in the game

[Supersnow845]

I feel like we end up constantly going in circles with this. I get that you're really happy that there's an extremely powerful job that lets you feel valued for next to no effort, which is why you've been unconditionally defending it against nerfs despite the impact it's having on the game. I'm naturally going to argue against it, because I see it driving players out of the game. It's a bit ironic, because it's essentially the healer situation but flipped, yet you can't seem to take a more empathic stance on it.

You're not engaged with raid content on your own admission, so there's no point going to a discussion over this. It's genuinely silly trying to compare PCT and the likes of BLM, when PCT is essentially SMN without raise. I'm also not going to scrutinize all the technical differences between melee jobs that vary by like 5-10 APM, especially when we know the primary performance difference varies based off of fight clear time and uptime considerations (i.e. essentially burst vs. sustained damage) from looking at data from the last tier across several weeks.

I feel like we go in circles with this

Yes because you keep both pretending like I don’t do high end content (I do) as if that gives you some kind of authority over the situation to make grand sweeping statements (“oh honey you can’t understand this I just know more than you”) and when i point out your logic is inconsistent you deflect to pretending like I’m trying to defend PCT’s current damage when I’ve told you 1068106910682069275 times I don’t mind PCT being nerfed (the only thing I refuse to budge on is its internal gameplay design, send its physical numbers down to SMN if you want to punish it for existing, I don’t really care)

If you don’t think BLM is disgustingly easy your argument has never had a shred of internal logic, if you refuse to scrutinise larger differences in DPS between the melees than any difference PCT had in savage your argument has no internal logic. Don’t attempt to act like I’m the one defending PCT when all I do is sit here and point out your belated crusade against PCT literally makes zero sense when you actually break down your arguments. If you want to say PCT is easy because say…..it has no real fail states (outside of prepping the burst perfectly) or because despite its many casts overall its movement is too free then I’d agree with you, PCT isn’t a paradigm of difficulty any more than most any class is in this game. 99.9% of these arguments I start with you because I have no idea why you hyperfixate on APM as a proxy for difficulty

Don’t turn phys ranged problems into an argument PCT is the end of the world. Don’t deflect long held balance problems from ShB onto PCT and just come out and say it

PCT. IS. TOO. STRONG. AND. NEEDS. TO. BE. NERFED

because when you say it flat outright like that everyone agrees with you, rather than your current direction of blaming the rock you stubbed your toe on 5 years ago on PCT

[Lyth]

I have no idea why you're pretending BLM's gameplay paradigm is somehow a defense of PCT. BLM requires strategy, anticipation, and planning. PCT does not.

PCT is neither a strategic job, nor is it a mechanically intensive one. It has nothing to justify its excessive damage, low effort burst, and utility, outside of the fact that there's probably someone on the job balance team who mains the job in their free time.

PCT's existence brings into question Physical Ranged's entire existence. Why are Physical Ranged punished relative to PCT when PCT has so many instant casts and better utility? I think you have to start with that question before you even look at addressing issues around range-dependent uptime. Fixed the balance within Ranged jobs, for starters.

And yes, PCT needs to be nerfed.

[Valence]

Even the players forgot that Ranged Physical is a role in the game. They'd rather talk about PCT.

[mallleable]

Even if PCT gets nerfed, they still need to buff, and rework the phys ranged role. Please just make walking casts a phys ranged thing, and start by giving them to BRD, and MCH. Please do this before 8.0.

[Connor]

Even if PCT gets nerfed, they still need to buff, and rework the phys ranged role. Please just make walking casts a phys ranged thing, and start by giving them to BRD, and MCH. Please do this before 8.0.

I feel like this goes back to the thing about BRD doing (relatively or whatever) good DPS but still having a ton of gameplay problems.

Like, to me job balancing is one thing, but whether that job is actually fun to play is something entirely different (not to say that the two aren’t inexorably linked). They could make every phys ranged do 5 million dps per second (lol) and it still wouldn’t change people’s minds about the job if it played the exact same as it does now.

Not to say balancing shouldn’t also be important, but at the same time I don’t see the point in them just being satisfied with ‘is it balanced’ if they aren’t ever going to consider ‘is it fun?’

[Supersnow845]

I have no idea why you're pretending BLM's gameplay paradigm is somehow a defense of PCT. BLM requires strategy, anticipation, and planning. PCT does not.

PCT is neither a strategic job, nor is it a mechanically intensive one. It has nothing to justify its excessive damage, low effort burst, and utility, outside of the fact that there's probably someone on the job balance team who mains the job in their free time.

PCT's existence brings into question Physical Ranged's entire existence. Why are Physical Ranged punished relative to PCT when PCT has so many instant casts and better utility? I think you have to start with that question before you even look at addressing issues around range-dependent uptime. Fixed the balance within Ranged jobs, for starters.

And yes, PCT needs to be nerfed.

I’m only using BLM as a comparative example here because you open basically every argument with APM as a proxy for difficulty. BLM’s APM is just as low as PCT yet you never seem to have a problem with it like you do PCT

Like I said my argument doesn’t really have anything to do with PCT u just don’t understand why you hyperfixate on APM so much. You say BLM requires strategy, planning and anticipation which means at its core you must understand that casting has its own set of difficulty paradigms yet you never extend them to PCT, after the flare change PCT spends more time casting per 2 minutes than BLM. I’d still consider BLM harder since it doesn’t have weave windows but if you are complexity in BLM you can’t see zero complexity in PCT

This is just kinda my point in general. You just don’t apply your own logic when it comes to PCT. PCT is somehow easier than SMN, has absolutely meaningless cast times despite being the most cast heavy caster, has APM a 2 year could figure out and is warping balance that’s been unbalanced since ShB despite coming out 4 months ago.

It’s fine to ask for nerfs to the job but I’m not sure why your internal logic goes out the window when it comes to PCT

[Aravell]

Personally, I oppose walking casts on BRD.

I'd like at least one job that remains high APM, after they slowed down so many jobs already. Walking casts would just slow BRD down a lot because they can't weave during a cast and BRD gameplay is majority filler.

I'd rather see BRD continue down the song rotation path with the job difficulty coming from random chance procs and managing a branching priority system. About the only cast I'd want to see on BRD going forward would be the return of Foe Requiem.

[mallleable]

Personally, I oppose walking casts on BRD.

I'd like at least one job that remains high APM, after they slowed down so many jobs already. Walking casts would just slow BRD down a lot because they can't weave during a cast and BRD gameplay is majority filler.

I'd rather see BRD continue down the song rotation path with the job difficulty coming from random chance procs and managing a branching priority system. About the only cast I'd want to see on BRD going forward would be the return of Foe Requiem.

I don't think BRD's APM would take that big of a hit -- if at all with walking casts -- even doing something like just making Burst Shot a walking cast. I think BRD would only just need 1 additional GCD proc as part of its filler, dots down to 30 seconds, and an extra charge of Empyreal Arrow. That way, BRD would have DoT/Ironjaws, Refulgent Arrow, Apex/Blast Arrow, and new GCD to double weave off of. And with an extra charge of EA, you don't have to be as strict with when you have to use your oGCDs. Another thing is they could make the haste from Army's Paeon a passive trait or just add it to every song, and rework AP to behave differently.

[Carighan]

If you want high APM, can always play Starcraft. "high APM" isn't exactly a positive design element - if anything, it's a negative one since it's RSI-inducing.

[Emitans]

If you want high APM, can always play Starcraft. "high APM" isn't exactly a positive design element - if anything, it's a negative one since it's RSI-inducing.

This is why there is more than one job. Even if CS3 is trying to turn everything into the same job.