They forgot Ranged Physical is a role in the game

[Carighan]

Small nitpick: RDM procs aren't instant casts, they replace a same-duration cast with a different one.

[NightHour]

This whole "Ranged Tax" and "Utility Tax" is outdated and has no place in current day FF14.

At most the gap between Melee and Ranged should be < 5%.


Melee's in particular no longer need to fight for uptime or positionals, boss hitboxes and mechanics are designed specifically with melee uptime in mind.


We don't live in the Doma castle days anymore where bosses have miniscule hitboxes (looking at you last boss in Doma) and mechanics actually forcing you away from bosses.


As for the "no reason to play melee if ranged do similar damage" nonsense that melee players keep spewing - Melee is one of the most fun to play and lowest responsibility roles in higher end content.

Also most strategies are made around the premise of a group having 2 melee and 2 ranged. Melee will still be played even if Phys and Casters are within 5% of them.


No sane melee player will ever give up their Viper or Dragoon to go be someone elses bitch on Dancer.

[Arohk]

I think the biggest Problem with Physical Ranged jobs is how badly they are designed,
Only Dancer has put some thought into it.
Bard and Machinist are just awful to play in PvE, but they feel good in PvP

[Valence]

This whole "Ranged Tax" and "Utility Tax" is outdated and has no place in current day FF14.

At most the gap between Melee and Ranged should be < 5%.


Melee's in particular no longer need to fight for uptime or positionals, boss hitboxes and mechanics are designed specifically with melee uptime in mind.


We don't live in the Doma castle days anymore where bosses have miniscule hitboxes (looking at you last boss in Doma) and mechanics actually forcing you away from bosses.


As for the "no reason to play melee if ranged do similar damage" nonsense that melee players keep spewing - Melee is one of the most fun to play and lowest responsibility roles in higher end content.

Also most strategies are made around the premise of a group having 2 melee and 2 ranged. Melee will still be played even if Phys and Casters are within 5% of them.


No sane melee player will ever give up their Viper or Dragoon to go be someone elses bitch on Dancer.

I'd note that the gap between rphys and melee dps in the second half of expansions since ShB, has always been around 5-6%. It always seems to start very high at release for some reason, and then they keep rebuffing the role until the gap thins a little. I still don't think it is satisfying enough in any case.

I think the biggest Problem with Physical Ranged jobs is how badly they are designed,
Only Dancer has put some thought into it.
Bard and Machinist are just awful to play in PvE, but they feel good in PvP

DNC is the most resident sleeper stuff I've had the displeasure playing until SMN took the cake. Only redeeming feature, it's a rphys job for me. Only bard is even remotely interesting right now, but it's not saying much.

[Lyth]

??

The reason why Physical Ranged is consistently neglected and disregarded is because you're willing to shill for Magical Ranged while PCT laughs all the way to the clear on a 25 APM rotation. This isn't Endwalker anymore.

[Supersnow845]

The reason why Physical Ranged is consistently neglected and disregarded is because you're willing to shill for Magical Ranged while PCT laughs all the way to the clear on a 25 APM rotation. This isn't Endwalker anymore.

I still have zero idea why you fixate on APM of all things

Like your own main is basically a developer exercise in showing you can have twice the APM of most other jobs while still struggling to surpass SMN in how easy the class is. Very few people would argue VPR is harder than PCT so honestly what does APM add to anything in a discussion

Hell why not complain about that DRG is also running laps around VPR with lower APM or even literally any other class

[Lyth]

...

Didn't you originally swap over directly from a one-button broil job to PCT? And that's as a 'roleplaying main', in your own words. I could try to explain to you how mechanical complexity works in contrast to feelycraft, but sometimes you just can't express something to someone that's outside their experience. You're certainly welcome to try to play a melee job in harder content if you like and get a different perspective.

[Supersnow845]

Didn't you originally swap over directly from a one-button broil job to PCT? And that's as a 'roleplaying main', in your own words. I could try to explain to you how mechanical complexity works in contrast to feelycraft, but sometimes you just can't express something to someone that's outside their experience. You're certainly welcome to try to play a melee job in harder content if you like and get a different perspective.

Have you tried to play a caster in high end content or does the fact that casters actually have to cast mean nothing to you. Pressing 3 buttons when I press one doesn’t immediately make your class harder when I can’t move while I’m casting that 1, or are the overwhelming feedback that VPR is too easy mean nothing to you. You can’t hold authority over me for not playing melee in high end content when you don’t play casters in high end content. I do high end content. I don’t do high end content on Andreas. That’s the entire point of your comment that you are misinterpreting as me being a “roleplaying main”. I hide my raid logs on an alt in the JP servers with my static because I don’t need people stalking them

In your eyes APM is equal to complexity, so by this logic

1) BLM is an incredibly easy job that should be doing bottom of the barrel damage (I’m sure you’d have a fun time trying to sell that)
2) any job doing more than VPR is instantly incorrectly balanced. This includes DRG, MNK, NIN, SAM and RPR all who do more damage than VPR. Hell DRG is doing so much more damage than VPR in FRU its worse than literally any point of PCT balance prior to FRU, which you have strongly opposed since day 1

Do you agree with these points? If not your internal logic has no consistency and is basically “PCT bad my justification of why doesn’t matter”. Acting like you hold authority over me changes nothing about how your argument has no internal logic.

[Carighan]

At most the gap between Melee and Ranged should be < 5%.

It... is? /confused

[Lyth]

??

I feel like we end up constantly going in circles with this. I get that you're really happy that there's an extremely powerful job that lets you feel valued for next to no effort, which is why you've been unconditionally defending it against nerfs despite the impact it's having on the game. I'm naturally going to argue against it, because I see it driving players out of the game. It's a bit ironic, because it's essentially the healer situation but flipped, yet you can't seem to take a more empathic stance on it.

You're not engaged with raid content on your own admission, so there's no point going to a discussion over this. It's genuinely silly trying to compare PCT and the likes of BLM, when PCT is essentially SMN without raise. I'm also not going to scrutinize all the technical differences between melee jobs that vary by like 5-10 APM, especially when we know the primary performance difference varies based off of fight clear time and uptime considerations (i.e. essentially burst vs. sustained damage) from looking at data from the last tier across several weeks.