7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[HikariKurosawa]

I don’t really understand the logic behind making drg less busy and jumpy. Is this a way of clearing space for giant summoned dragon limbs to be the new focus or to make crits matter more? It really doesn’t feel like a dragoon, but maybe that’s just because I associate drg with being well designed.

Don’t worry lad, I’ll believe you’re not a troll if you like.
I hope you grasp what you’ve asked people to think of you.

Dragoon on average is far more busy, and busy right out of the gate now. We have far more buttons to press, and a far more busy opener. We gained a really cool jump(starcross) and lost a crappy one with an extremely dated animation in exchange for a gap closer(what spineshatter dive was supposed to be).

It's okay to call me a troll, just like it's okay to have hot takes like dragoon going in a bad direction. Even with the nastrond changes in 7.1, we're still at 13 oGCD uses per 2 minute burst window. Difference is we get that from the start now.

Less jumpy too, I don't really get this as we're doing stardiver way more often in dawntrail, on top of having starcross too. Maybe you're just not playing the job right?

[Nikoto]

Your daily reminder to stop responding to Hikari.

[HikariKurosawa]

Your daily reminder to stop responding to Hikari.

Is this how you respond to reason? By putting your head in the sand?

[mallleable]

PVP DRG kept the deal more damage the further you are from your target on certain attacks mechanic, but BRD didn't. I wonder if it's being considered for 8.0 DRG.

[CidHeiral]

There's also quite a disconnect between the animations and gameplay now which I went over in my own DRG breakdown thread. They've moved away from many of the weighty animations that had lots of impact into these very quick (and often anatomically nonsensical) animations while also gutting half the job. So your character is darting around like out of an anime without really doing much of anything gameplay wise. It actually would have made more sense to stick with the slower, more powerful hits if this is the direction they were going.

[seolhyun]

i think if i had to remove 2 ogcds i would have preferred life surge being remade into a real defensive and mirage dive being removed with the potency added to high jump to make it feel more impactful.

in general i hope in 8.0 they focus on making jumps more of the focus and make them feel better, possibly make the big ones gcds

[HeavenlyArmed]

Okay, the last time I'm going to engage with you, but the counterevidence is all around you here. Look at how many people have said "I've never posted on the forums before, but came here to add my voice to those who are upset about this." Look at how this is by far the most active English thread about job design. Clearly, there is a substantial "we" who share this opinion. You don't? That's fine, go start a thread talking about how much you love the changes and see how much traction it gets. I'm sure you and the one other person in this whole thread who has defended the changes will have a great time talking between yourselves.

But let's also be clear about how busy the job is and has been. Right now at level 100 the job is less busy than it was at level 90 during Endwalker. During a two-minute burst window you have 9-11 OGCDs to weave vs 11-13. You're pre-Starcross, so you can take off an additional one. At level 90 currently you can get through your entire burst window with only one double weave in some situations and that's totally optimal. If you double-weave everything then half your burst window is spent just doing your basic GCD rotation with no OGCDs. And it only gets slower the earlier you go. I'm not saying the job needs to be as OGCD heavy during burst at level 100 as it was before the change, which btw is exactly +1 OGCD compared to EW DRG. But there were ways that could have been done that don't make those early levels feel as much worse as they do, and I hope that in the near future they opt to revert the Natrond change and instead put in place one of those alternatives.

And for those who want to check my math, here's a pastebin where I list out all of the OGCD usage during two-minute buff windows: https://pastebin.com/4aPke9Ks
Keep in mind that for one-minute windows you also remove Dragonfire and anything related to it as well as Life Surges at 80 and below.

Just wanted to note that I updated the pastebin link in this post, and that actually the job is less busy at 100 than I had originally stated. But while I'm here I'll also show how overall busy DRG is with a different pastebin, this one going over raw APM numbers for all of the physical dps in M4S at some of the fastest clears. https://pastebin.com/T8cWrhCn

[HikariKurosawa]

Just wanted to note that I updated the pastebin link in this post, and that actually the job is less busy at 100 than I had originally stated.

You're actually wrong though. Pre-7.1 it had 15 oGCD for opener and 2 minute burst, now it has 13 after you subtract the 2 nastrond. It's the same amount oGCD as endwalker, only more frequently and during the opener, while also having more button diversity.

https://i.imgur.com/KstklRQ.png

There are limits to how disingenuous people should be when pushing their own weird narratives.

Reading your pastebin is weird too, you say level 70 has 5 oGCD when it actually has 8? What is your logic? 1) Lance Charge, 2) Battle Litany, 3) Geirskogul, 4) Nastrond, 5) High Jump, 6) Mirage Dive, 7) Dragonfire Dive, 8) Life Surge.

Just weird all around.

Even if we exclude buffs for some reason, DT at 100 still has 12 oGCD, yet you say it has 9-11? Just weird logic.

[HeavenlyArmed]

You're actually wrong though. Pre-7.1 it had 15 oGCD for opener and 2 minute burst, now it has 13 after you subtract the 2 nastrond. It's the same amount oGCD as endwalker, only more frequently and during the opener, while also having more button diversity.

https://i.imgur.com/KstklRQ.png

There are limits to how disingenuous people should be when pushing their own weird narratives.

Reading your pastebin is weird too, you say level 70 has 5 oGCD when it actually has 8? What is your logic? 1) Lance Charge, 2) Battle Litany, 3) Geirskogul, 4) Nastrond, 5) High Jump, 6) Mirage Dive, 7) Dragonfire Dive, 8) Life Surge.

Just weird all around.

Have you tried reading? "After buffs" is clearly stated in there as a factor in both EW DRG and DT DRG. And even then you're being disingenuous because you're taking the highest possible amounts, when there will be several burst windows in any fight where you aren't able to double-Life Surge or double-Wyrmwind due to how things align.

[Noox-115]

I mean honestly since DT I see almost no DRGs anymore people I talked to in game pretty much the same thing : Why play DRG anymore when everything fun of it was stripped off especially with other dps doing a better job in both damage overall and buff

other DPS do more damage and bring more to the party sure DRG burst hit hard af but out of their burst they have nothing I see DRG in trial going from 2nd place in agro during their burst to 6 after they are on CD

In EW if you managed to handle your eyes correctly it was a burst every 30 sec it was more fun that way and DRG also had a bit more party utility back then in the end DRG really just feel like a Lancer on Steroids than a badass Dragon Knight but hey took them like 4 years to buff DRK a little bit so maybe in 2030 it will be cool again