Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[dspguy]

Look around these forums. How often are people complaining about a dungeon being a few second slower because people don't Peloton, or Sprint between trash mobs, or AOE properly. How many times are healers told that they should be able to heal with oGCD while doing damage with GCDs? The priority by most players running dungeons is to finish as soon as possible. Extreme/Savage is based on DPS checks. Less heals is more damage overall. Bloodwhetting means is that we finish faster since the healers can DPS more.

I see a lot of players still playing other tank classes. According to some FFXIV demographics sites, tank usage is fairly even - if anything, DRK is used more than WAR. So, bloodwhetting isn't making other players NOT play other tanks.

There are 94 healers for every 100 tanks. Again, the balance seems reasonable. It isn't like tanks are waiting 30 minutes for a party waiting on a healer. So if healers don't like the situation... then wouldn't the wait be longer?

This just seems like more of an idle complaint for a forum than an actual issue.

[Shurrikhan]

According to some FFXIV demographics sites, tank usage is fairly even - if anything, DRK is used more than WAR.

This just seems like more of an idle complaint for a forum than an actual issue.

The complaint is that Warrior's glut of sustain --especially where multi-target attacks are frequently possible-- effectively locks us into either dungeon sustain requirements being a joke since, without the others being equally able to meet all sustain requirements despite having only half the sustain producible across AoE pulls and just ~65 to ~85% Warrior's sustain in single-target, Warrior would then be able to leverage what is currently a massive excess of sustain towards rDPS, giving it a significant advantage in party output... or to that inevitable imbalance. And, in the meantime, that getting a Warrior means that one has basically no use for most of their healing actions --no matter how "free-- unless other players make repeated mistakes.

That has nothing to do with Warrior's popularity across the whole game, or even in dungeons alone, where the inability to make good use of its full kit is as much a turn-off for those who enjoy what tasks and challenges remain to tanking as such as it is an attractor for those who prefer something more easy mode.

[dspguy]

I understand the complaint very well. What I'm saying... it doesn't matter.

The results are:

• Players are playing other tanks still
• Healers are still playing healers
• Parties are clearing dungeons/raids/etc

Even if BW is OP, it hasn't changed any of that. If people are backing out of parties because there is a GNB/DRK/PLD instead of a WAR, then there's an issue. Until then, this is just something to complain about with no actual "harm" done.

[PyurBlue]

Even if BW is OP, it hasn't changed any of that. If people are backing out of parties because there is a GNB/DRK/PLD instead of a WAR, then there's an issue. Until then, this is just something to complain about with no actual "harm" done.

If someone's experience is negatively impacted, harm has been done in some form. Feedback doesn't need to be limited to only the most severe problems, and classifying a problem doesn't have to be limited to the criteria you've listed. Feelings on BW are also caught up in the wider opinion on the state of healing, which is hard to dismiss as a small nitpick. Many healers feel like the game isn't in a good spot and self sufficient tanks do nothing to alleviate that feeling.

[dspguy]

If someone's experience is negatively impacted, harm has been done in some form. Feedback doesn't need to be limited to only the most severe problems, and classifying a problem doesn't have to be limited to the criteria you've listed. Feelings on BW are also caught up in the wider opinion on the state of healing, which is hard to dismiss as a small nitpick. Many healers feel like the game isn't in a good spot and self sufficient tanks do nothing to alleviate that feeling.

Technically, someone's experience could be negatively impacted if they play a healer and the tank forgets to hit tank stance. Or AFKs.

What a low bar you are suggesting.

I suppose SE should address that? Have tank stance always on. And if a player AFKs, the squadron/trust algorithm takes over and plays the job for them.

And it doesn't change the fact that if it was a problem... there would be much longer queues for tanks and DPS if healers didn't like their job to the point where they play a tank or DPS instead. But they aren't.

On my checklist earlier:
- When people quit parties because the tank is not a WAR
- Healers don't queue
- People can't clear dungeons

Then there is a problem worth doing something about.

[PyurBlue]

Technically, someone's experience could be negatively impacted if they player a healer and the tank forgets to hit tank stance. Or AFKs.

That's right, and if that were to happen they can provide feedback on their negative experience.

What a low bar you are suggesting.

What bar is there to set? I think discussion on something like a game should be open.

I suppose SE should address that - have tank stance always on. And if a player AFKs, the squadron/trust algorithm takes over and plays the job for them.

If it can be addressed then ideally it should be, although the first solution to pop up isn't necessarily the best one. Discussion of some kind should take place to gather more ideas and then refine them.

And it doesn't change the fact that if it was a problem... there would be much longer queues for tanks and DPS if healers didn't like their job to the point where they play a tank or DPS instead. But they aren't.

I'm guessing this is going back to WAR? There is enough of a problem that people are talking about it and proposing solutions. WAR isn't going to make FF14 collapse, but it's making some of the design issues in the game obvious.

On my checklist earlier:
- When people quit parties because the tank is not a WAR
- Healers don't queue
- People can't clear dungeons

Then there is a problem worth doing something about.

Your opinion is valid, but it's not universal.

[Somnolence]

I see a lot of players still playing other tank classes. According to some FFXIV demographics sites, tank usage is fairly even - if anything, DRK is used more than WAR.

There are 2x less DRKs doing savage than WARs or PLDs.

PLD popularity being on par with WAR for this is not surprising - like WAR but unlike GNB and DRK it has mitigation versus physical raidwides, has competitive damage, good tools to deal with melee downtime and is fun to play.