Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[AllenThyl]

We seem to have gone full circle again, so I'll return to my embroidery until someone addresses how we increase the skill level in FL.

Dang, what a genius idea! Maybe someone, who is like really good at Frontlines, with a high winrate or so, could write like an ordered compendium of tips and tricks how to be a better player in Frontline. You know, like an instruction manual. A tutorial video, but in text form.

Let me make sure I understand this correctly. Your goal is to either force other players to improve (or more accurately, to adopt the style of play that you have deemed "correct"), or make them so miserable that they quit the mode?

Ah, can't do that, I see. Well, but at least we, as community, can promote and support the people who are indeed striving to be good at this game mode, right?

Really remarkable how a small group of curb-stomping clowns make the mode unplayable for everyone actually interested in good PvP matches.

I do worry that, with a new generation of mini-Olivias taking the helm, the times they end up on the same team will just magnify the current problems. I guess I can hope they'll self-destruct through infighting.

Have you ever thought about how games and game modes grow? How new players become interested in a mode and want to get better? PvP games/modes are notorious for struggling with this, and it's invariably because of a self-appointed elite who are completely deaf to any criticisms that might diminish their "fun," and who can't see beyond "win at any cost."

A skill gap which you insist on widening by running your premades.

I dislike playing with you and people who adopt your playstyle.

What really amuses me is these premades actually believe they are "doing PvP" and are good at it.

Pretty sure FL will be part of the Mogtome event starting in a week. I'd like to encourage premades and other Discord-based abusers (such as the Q-synchers) to back off during this period. Maybe take the opportunity to learn to play solo. If you unleash your usual tricks, this will achieve two things:

1. Make FL miserable for 5 weeks as the transient casuals flock to the ranks of those who don't care and play accordingly.

2. Lead new players (some of whom may get hooked by this potentially-fun mode) to conclude that FL is dominated by a bunch of seal-clubbing psychopaths, so we only see the newbies again come the next Mogtome event.

Ah, but at least we can call out the uninterested and griefers, not make up excuses for their continued lethargy...

The problem is that NA is currently a low-skill pool, and it will remain that way if premades are allowed to continue feeding on the hapless and removing agency from players who might actually improve if they felt their contribution mattered.

If 97% of players dislike a playstyle, any game developer worth their salt will satisfy them and not a tiny minority who seem hell-bent on imposing their will upon others. Suggesting there is some objectively-correct playstyle through a bizarre analogy with celestial mechanics is pure sophistry.

I agree that NA FL matches would be more interesting if the average skill level was significantly higher. Currently, however, there is simply no reason for people to improve at all, except for those like you and me who enjoy being good at things.

Don't get me wrong, I am very much aware of your positions, I have followed this thread since its inception and read all posts in it. You have stated that you think that the low skill player base is indeed a problem, and that "something" should be done by SE to combat the most eggregious afkers / feeders. But you reserve your vitriol and zeal exclusively for those who actually try to make a difference, while downplaying the detrimental effect that both the griefers, and their endless enablers have. The soccer analogy makes perfectly clear of how wrong you are when it comes to analyzing the current state of Frontline.

Imagine you go to the park and get a pick-up game of soccer/football underway. Everyone is having fun kicking the ball around getting some fresh air and exercise and engaging in some friendly competition.

"Everyone is having fun kicking the ball". LoL
First and foremost, even the most casual of casual pickup matches follow the base formula of 2 teams against each other trying to score in the opposing goal. The "kicking the ball" stuff is just a means to an end, so is the running around and everything else. The same goes for Frontline, wins are decided by points at the ends, contesting objectives and killing / routing enemy players are all just a means to an end.

But what I really want to stress is that in a more accurate analogy, 2 players would just stand around in the first 20-25% of the game, looking at their smartphone, one of whom will continue doing this for the rest of the game, because their food will arrive soon. 2-3 players would only lightly jog to get to the ball, after all, "it's just a game, no need to take it seriosly". One person would just stand near the enemy goal, because they are only interested in shooting goals, and who are you to tell them how to play this game? There would also be no designated goal keeper, because playing goalkeeper is "no fun", and people who insist on it are just tyrants who try to force their will onto others. And when anyone of the leftover people would actually call any of this out, they would be immediately blasted with a barrage of abuse by the very same people who somehow showed up to a soccer game, but have no interest actually playing it, but their mom promised to buy them some candy when they at least show their face (all players are adults btw).

And then we would have you, complaining that the 3 people on the opposing team are "ruining" the match for everyone, because they actually make an effort and communicate with each other. Ah, no, sorry, because the know each other from before. And that somehow is a cardinal sin for you, not the large amount of people who actually need to start questioning their life choices.

But the grand finale would be you discussing what changes could be made to the soccer rules so that the game appeals to the 97% who are uninterested in it in the first place.

[Mawlzy]

And then we would have you, complaining that the 3 people on the opposing team are "ruining" the match for everyone, because they actually make an effort and communicate with each other. Ah, no, sorry, because the know each other from before. And that somehow is a cardinal sin for you, not the large amount of people who actually need to start questioning their life choices.

But the grand finale would be you discussing what changes could be made to the soccer rules so that the game appeals to the 97% who are uninterested in it in the first place.

If you enjoy trying to score cheap points with statements that would receive derisive laughter if presented by a JHS debate team, please keep up the good work.

I have ceased engaging with this thread, largely because of the preponderance of rude individuals claiming to know what I would do in bizarre hypotheticals, particularly when those predictions are both insulting and completely false, as above.

Have a nice life.

[AllenThyl]

Ah yes, the Teflon argumentation, where even quoting someone verbatim is misrepresenting them. As Watzlawick said, one cannot not communicate. The things you don't say matter as well, especially given the high volume of posts that you have in this thread (your posts are roughly 12 - 15% of all posts in this thread, and the vast majority aren't some throwaway lines). The reason that I waded through this thread to pick up all your bits and pieces is precisely because I knew that you would deny any and all characterizations of your points, alas, here we are.

[Mawlzy]

Ah yes, the Teflon argumentation, where even quoting someone verbatim is misrepresenting them. As Watzlawick said, one cannot not communicate. The things you don't say matter as well, especially given the high volume of posts that you have in this thread (your posts are roughly 12 - 15% of all posts in this thread, and the vast majority aren't some throwaway lines). The reason that I waded through this thread to pick up all your bits and pieces is precisely because I knew that you would deny any and all characterizations of your points, alas, here we are.

Okay, you got me. One last response.

Where did I say that the quotes of mine that you include are misrepresenting my position? I didn't. Because that would be ludicrous. But there you go again claiming I said something that I didn't.

You "knew that you would deny any and all characterizations of your points" did you? Woweee!!! Uhm, but where have I denied "any and all characterizations" of my points? It's not my fault your analogies are complete disasters. For example, I have some quibbles with the offside and hand-ball rules in soccer. But why on earth would I wish to change the rules so that 97% of the population who don't play the game would want to? This illogical rambling is lower than sophistry.

Some of the snippets you so graciously trawled through 94 pages to find, I may have moved on from. This is because I am engaging in a discussion. I do so to better understand the topic and the positions of others so I can refine my own position. Have you ever considered such an approach? But simply quoting me, then drawing bizarre parallels to miraculously divine what I do and do not want really isn't helping your case.

No point in replying other than playing to the gallery since I'm now blocking you.

[AllenThyl]

Okay, you got me. One last response.

Bets, anyone?

Woweee!!! Uhm, but where have I denied "any and all characterizations" of my points?

"But I never said it this precise way". Is that also one of those fancy debating techniques employed by the JHS debate team? To feint ignorance about the meaning of your very own words?

It's not my fault your analogies are complete disasters.

Either you have a very rosy opinion of the current state of Frontline, or you don't know how analogies work.

[Atreus]

I have ceased engaging with this thread, largely because of the preponderance of rude individuals claiming to know what I would do in bizarre hypotheticals, particularly when those predictions are both insulting and completely false, as above.

You're disingenuous and people are calling you on it. You come here several times a day to make known your disdain for premades and anyone who disagrees with your campaign to remove them. It's as tiresome to everyone as they are to you.

[FatCatEnjoyer]

me when I use fancy words and then block the people actually calling me out

[SylvanasYT]

Some of the snippets you so graciously trawled through 94 pages to find, I may have moved on from. This is because I am engaging in a discussion. I do so to better understand the topic and the positions of others so I can refine my own position.

You bring hate to yourself not by what you believe in but how you fight for it.

[Aravell]

At this point I just assume commanders in chat are automatically part of a premade (or the general "clique" that people say exists on Discords) and disregard what they say and just do what works for me, it's the only option I have left really to make the mode not feel completely dull or my presence not feel completely pointless.

While I don't share the same opinion on commanders and premades, I do encourage people to learn on their own.

I've had a few certain losses from a commander making a critically bad call turn into victories because I struck out on my own with a small group of other solo players and made the correct call, which delayed the loss long enough for the commander to make the right call for the win.

What I'm saying is that you don't have to be a drone in the murderball to make an impact. Delaying enemies and scouting are also ways to make your own impact.

[FatCatEnjoyer]

No one is saying "or else?"

Not going to lie, even as someone who runs with these "premades" a lot, when I solo queue, 7/10 times I ignore dark knights whose names I don't recognize or when I can tell they're clearly not cut out for the job after the first engagement in favor of running around ratting