Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mawlzy]

Now that I think about it actually, I've seen more WARs working *with* DRKs than against, as it completely nulls the "just use Guard" suggestion to deal with Salted Earth when WARs can just rip off the Guard.

So even when a job *could* be used as a counter-pick, people still went straight to thinking "how I can use this for daddy DRK"?

Outside of premades, I think solo WAR players will default to this for a very simple reason. When the match starts, you know who is on your team, but not the enemy teams. If there's a DRK on my team I recognize, or one drops a Dorito on their head, I know trailing around after them and pressing 5 buttons in the correct order will help my team win.

Incidentally, this is one reason many of the DRK+ counter-strategies that are brought up here are so unrealistic, particularly the ones that advocate job switching before kick-off. You have no idea of the composition that you're up against; to expect randos to do it is naive anyway; and when it's attempted in a more organized manner, those involved get accused of queue sniping.

[FatCatEnjoyer]

it's almost as if people with thousands of frontline matches would actually be better at the game :O

[Bobby66]

Why not just queue with friends and make your own premade? Even if you made it solo queue that would not do much to improve the quality of players. MMR :may" work on larger DC and that is a big may because without a large and diverse player count an MMR system will just result in longer queues for the side with less players or still end up with skewed matches on lower pop DC.
This reminds me when I do FL and people complain about the teams comp like no DK yet no one who complains wants to switch. People complain about lack of leadership yet they themselves are uninterested in leading.

Why punish people that wish to play with friends? Not all premades are createe equally.

[Xylira]

Why not just queue with friends and make your own premade? Even if you made it solo queue that would not do much to improve the quality of players. MMR :may" work on larger DC and that is a big may because without a large and diverse player count an MMR system will just result in longer queues for the side with less players or still end up with skewed matches on lower pop DC.

None of my friends bother with PvP, and given the state of it I don't blame them. I have no one to queue with, so I just solo-queue. The alternative is for me to just not PvP anymore, which for how badly skewed so many matches tend to end up is becoming an increasingly enticing option.

This reminds me when I do FL and people complain about the teams comp like no DK yet no one who complains wants to switch. People complain about lack of leadership yet they themselves are uninterested in leading.

Which should have people questioning why the meta comp is so badly skewed toward certain jobs. And it's not just DRK, it's DRK+ that's the issue. You need someone to play DRK matched with people in the same group willing to play the jobs that accompany it the best, and be willing to follow said DRK around as support. Even just a competent DRK with a competent pocket healer AST is silly OP. Which surprise, works out perfectly for premade groups that decide to plan ahead and queue together with one of the meta comps.

Why punish people that wish to play with friends? Not all premades are createe equally.

Honestly this is a moot point, because the same argument could be made for why should solo-queuers be punished for having to face up against premade groups that abuse the poorly balanced meta.

[Mawlzy]

None of my friends bother with PvP, and given the state of it I don't blame them. I have no one to queue with, so I just solo-queue. The alternative is for me to just not PvP anymore, which for how badly skewed so many matches tend to end up is becoming an increasingly enticing option.


Which should have people questioning why the meta comp is so badly skewed toward certain jobs. And it's not just DRK, it's DRK+ that's the issue. You need someone to play DRK matched with people in the same group willing to play the jobs that accompany it the best, and be willing to follow said DRK around as support. Even just a competent DRK with a competent pocket healer AST is silly OP. Which surprise, works out perfectly for premade groups that decide to plan ahead and queue together with one of the meta comps.

The other point that tends to get overlooked is that, once one has graduated college, real life places restrictions on forming a semi-static. I often forget this is a 13+ game, partly because most of my friends here are closer to retirement than grade school. But given that using "fancy words" is apparently a crime and the nature of interactions one sees on Discord, I suspect a large segment of that community is extremely young. Which is fine, that's something we're all guilty of at some point. But I think it adds to the current friction so evident in this thread.

Agree that job balance (and the emphasis on burst and LB coordination) is the underlying cause of all this. The usual response from people determined to retain the current meta is "whatever you do, people will find a new cheese." I understand why there is a lack of faith in SE's ability to create a balanced mode, but even if they are literally incapable of accomplishing something that is standard for PvP games, at least changing it would alleviate the current boredom experienced by the majority of us.

I'm genuinely excited for 7.1. It's a win-win for me. By then, my leveling will be mostly complete. If there is a significant improvement in FL, I'll have enjoyable content. If there isn't, I'll have no reason to continue my role as a NPC in someone else's content. And honestly little reason to continue my subscription.

[Mawlzy]

I don't have friends period (which makes it all the more tempting to just pay and leave), but I did have some FC mates than wanted to make a party and queue up for the roulette XP a couple of days ago and they were one person short of a full 4-man. Despite the fact I hadn't done my own roulette yet, despite being one of the more active PVPers that I know of in my FC... I stayed dead quiet in the chat until I saw they were in a match and *then* queued up because I did not want to be in a premade, or even risk being in the same match as people I knew lest it skew the results, including if we had ended up on opposing teams. (Because it does happen where you see enemies being a little *too* friendly when they recognize each other.)

While I'm sure some people get together just for fun and aren't any more effective or coordinated than if they solo queued, it would seem the majority of premades are doing it for "efficiency" and the fun factor isn't hanging out together, it's destroying the opposition as fast as possible because those 1000s KO/Win achievements aren't going to earn themselves. Or at least... I assume its for the achievements with these particular premades, because I doubt they have anything left to spend marks/crystals on, maxed their Series XP within a week, and they're definitely not out there looking for close fights (especially on Dynamis).
+++



I'll be 41 in October, but never considered my age would be a factor in why I want for some things while detesting others. Guess I'm just "old fashioned" by expecting a competition to be sporting instead of a slog, or that it would be a 24-man effort instead of a 4/8-man flex. I'll go take my medicine and nap now, terribly sorry for shouting at clouds.

If you were in my FC, I'm pretty sure you'd be the youngest member

[Bobby66]

None of my friends bother with PvP, and given the state of it I don't blame them. I have no one to queue with, so I just solo-queue. The alternative is for me to just not PvP anymore, which for how badly skewed so many matches tend to end up is becoming an increasingly enticing option.



Which should have people questioning why the meta comp is so badly skewed toward certain jobs. And it's not just DRK, it's DRK+ that's the issue. You need someone to play DRK matched with people in the same group willing to play the jobs that accompany it the best, and be willing to follow said DRK around as support. Even just a competent DRK with a competent pocket healer AST is silly OP. Which surprise, works out perfectly for premade groups that decide to plan ahead and queue together with one of the meta comps.



Honestly this is a moot point, because the same argument could be made for why should solo-queuers be punished for having to face up against premade groups that abuse the poorly balanced meta.

I mean it is an MMO. Playing with others is an aspect to that. CC is a thing for those that want to a more "balanced" game mode or was supposed to be that. It does have a solo queue option.

FL is supposed to be the more casual game mode why limit those that want to queue with 3 others?

Not on pre-mades are sweaty try hard groups. I am willing to bet a lot of money many just queue together for fun and some memes.

As for meta comps, and meta will always be present. So as you said if people are not willing pick the comp that has a higher chance at victory maybe that just goes to show people don't care that much as many seem to think no?